shower pump with a bath/shower mixer

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hi, im just about to start my bathroom ive bought a shower/bath mixer tap and i wanted to put in a pump. ive done a bit of plumbing before so not worried about installing the shower but ive never put in a pump before and im not sure what i need to get really. my cylinder is on the same level as the shower, about 3 metres away so the pump will go in the loft above the tank, not sure if that is important or not?!?
also, how would the pump turn on and off? does it turn on with a switch or when the water starts to run though it? if its the latter, will it matter that i have a bath/shower mixer?
sorry if i sound like a bit of an idiot, thanks for your help

tom
 
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the pump will go in the loft above the tank, not sure if that is important or not?!?
Yes it is. Most shower pumps need a positive head and so sit on the floor at the side of the hot water cylinder. Water runs down and into the pump and then is transferred under pressure to the shower. If you want to mount the pump in the loft, you will need a pump suitable for a negative head. They are far more expensive.

how would the pump turn on and off? does it turn on with a switch or when the water starts to run though it?
Correct. That's exactly how it works. There is usually a switch on both the hot and cold side built into the pump so that if either hot or cold supplies are lost the pump stops automatically.

Showers need a balanced supply, so it is usual to pump both the hot and cold water from storage. You can't pump just the hot water and use the cold mains supply.


Also you will need to make provision to prevent the pump sucking the air bubbles that collect at the top of the hot water cylinder.Air in the pump will prevent it operating correctly and could damage it. A 'Surrey Flange' is a common method used.


will it matter that i have a bath/shower mixer?
You can use a pump with a bath / shower mixer. The pump will probably need to be larger than one just for a shower. (and by larger I mean flow rate ie litres/second not pressure) If you want to fill a bath, you may have to increase the capacity of your cold water storage tank to prevent it becoming empty during bath filling should you pump out water faster than it can refill from the mains.
 
Hi All,

Sorry for the post on an old thread but thought it would make a good starting point..

Am researching valves/pumps/showers etc and wondered whether it is possible to have a mixer for shower/bath that operated a pump only for shower use.. ie so I don't have to replace the cold water tank if it is too small to be replenished during the running of a bath as per Stem's answer above.

If that's not possible, how about separating the shower from the bath and installing a pump that only operates when the shower is in use, and the separate bath taps are then used to run the bath.. potentially messy looking I agree.

Of course, this is all hypthetical based on the size of the cold water tank, which I have no idea of the size of..

Thanks :)

Graeme.
 
stem";p="1925385 said:
the pump will go in the loft above the tank, not sure if that is important or not?!?
Yes it is. Most shower pumps need a positive head and so sit on the floor at the side of the hot water cylinder. Water runs down and into the pump and then is transferred under pressure to the shower. If you want to mount the pump in the loft, you will need a pump suitable for a negative head. They are far more expensive.

how would the pump turn on and off? does it turn on with a switch or when the water starts to run though it?
Correct. That's exactly how it works. There is usually a switch on both the hot and cold side built into the pump so that if either hot or cold supplies are lost the pump stops automatically.

Showers need a balanced supply, so it is usual to pump both the hot and cold water from storage. You can't pump just the hot water and use the cold mains supply.


Also you will need to make provision to prevent the pump sucking the air bubbles that collect at the top of the hot water cylinder.Air in the pump will prevent it operating correctly and could damage it. A 'Surrey Flange' is a common method used.

Just to add to the above point, it wouldn't be where the pump is that would determine what is negative head and positive head. This would be decided by the distance between the bottom of the cold water storage tank and the highest point in the system which is usually the shower head or any 'up and over' pipework in the loft. The pump could be anywhere between these two but usually there is a specification in the installation guide that will give a min distance between the bottom of the cold water cistern and the top of the pump (usually around 600mm) which is to ensure the pump is constantly flooder with water. If the pump is going above the hot water cylinder there is usually a requirement that you fit a No-stop Essex flange in the side of the cylinder rather than a Surrey flange on the top.

cheers
 
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One other point to mention is that the diagram above is wrong in relation to where the cold feed has been taken from the cold water storage tank. It has been taken from directly under where the ball valve fills into the tank. This will cause an air and water vortex to be drawn directly into the pump as it works. The pump feed and cylinder feed need to be from a different end of the cold tank to the ball valve.

cheers
 

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