MAG LOCKS-SECURE SIDE?

macsecurity2011 · 21 Mar 2011

Hi,

I recently installed a job in a fire station. On the access system there were 9 door access doors. One of my employees went out a saturday shift whilst i was on holiday to fit 5 double mag locks. On my return it hit me like a ton of bricks when i entered the building, he fitted the locks on the unsecured side of the door. He made a fatal error but now i have 5 doors which the locks are on the wrong side. They should have been on the inside with Z & L brackets.

Does anyone know clearly what the regs state for access controll? Are the locks required by standards to be fitted on the secure side? (i know in practice they should be but i am looking for an out)

I will be left with a bill for 5 double sets of doors and a joiner to fit them if this is the case they are not to the regs. All hardwood fancy doors so cannot just fill the holes in them.

Oh and while we are here, roller shutters on a grade 2 system, do you require to fit the tampered junction box for your connections? I know it is required on a grade 3 system but i was not sure about the grade 2 as in my personal opinion they give you more problems than anything else with high resistance faults later down the line.

Thanks guys

JohnD · 21 Mar 2011

stainless coach bolts through the fixing holes would be strong and look intentional. A dab of wood-coloured paint on the heads would look even better.

Do you want to sell some hardwood doors?

Alarm · 21 Mar 2011

First question,

Did YOUR SECIFICATION, say where to fit the devices?
Did the spec say inside or outside?

Did your engineer fit as he saw fit with the equipment provided?

Sort those issues out, maybe the answers will come.

Alarm · 21 Mar 2011

As to say "Your looking for an out"

Need I say more.............................F@@@king some excuse, you went on holiday.................

Rules here prevent another reply.

Registered are you?

alumni · 21 Mar 2011

Could/would they actually fit on the secure side of the door frame?
Is there room to mount on the underside of the door frame? (Building Regs accepted). You might get away with this but need to allow for transom fittings - been through this on a commissioning job today.

End of day though, you do need to look at your processes - and why the 'engineer' didn't realise.

macsecurity2011 · 22 Mar 2011

Yeah john i had though of leaving the stainless steel mushroom in the door the z bracket would cover the hole on the other side of the door but this would mean informing the main contractor who would be well within his rights to ask for new doors which would cost a pretty penny.

I just wanted to know the exact regs on this as im sure that you are not required to install them on the secure side of the door as a regulation.

I just want to know should i ever need to argue the point!

Thanks

macsecurity2011 · 22 Mar 2011

ALARM, of course i am looking for an out. One of my guys has fitted 5 double maglocks on the wrong side of double hardwood doors! Im pretty sure he doesnt want to not get paid for the rest of the year due to his mistake.

Is there a law against going on holiday! My worker is very competent, he just made a mistake as we all do in our time.

And am i registered, registered for what? I served a 4 year appreticeship so yes i am qualified and i have run my own business for 4 years i dont see where you are coming from????

Alarm · 22 Mar 2011

I`ll rephrase, No drawings?
No Spec?

Better?

You can fit where you like, as you say "Best Practise" is inside. And would have been asked for most likely.
Can the screws be attacked? The power supply to the locks?
Do they cause, rather could a running person hit their head on them?

Ask the H&S inspector there if he thinks they are okay.
Are they fitted as discussed if no spec or drawings were provided?

Enough outs?
Oh yeah wrong side, means doors now open in at a guess. Not fire doors are they, or on an emergency route?

macsecurity2011 · 22 Mar 2011

Drawings yes but not indicating side, but then the drawing should not be required to show sides as wer all know what side they should be fitted on. No specification althought the company i subcontract is a massive scottish company they said that the spec for the job was over 300 pages long so they had no way to put that into a smaller engineer friendly spec.

They do not interfere with any H&S issues the doors open the same way they always did and the door operation through the access system is exactly as it always would have worked regardless of side, and to be fair they look a lot better because they are fitted to the frame as opposed to the other side on Z & L brackets. Horrible lookinbg things in my opinion!

alumni · 22 Mar 2011

macsecurity2011 said:
Yeah john i had though of leaving the stainless steel mushroom in the door the z bracket would cover the hole on the other side of the door but this would mean informing the main contractor who would be well within his rights to ask for new doors which would cost a pretty penny.

I just wanted to know the exact regs on this as im sure that you are not required to install them on the secure side of the door as a regulation.

I just want to know should i ever need to argue the point!

Thanks

Assuming card access to door, you've just turned a Grade 3 system into a Grade 1. - unless your guy has managed to tube the cable entry into the mag. He won't have because you'd not be asking.

Just to help you, grade 1 is aking to just leaving the door on the latch.
So, even if you blag your way out of the door damage, you are now wide open for an efficacy claim against you. You do have efficay insurance don't you?

For the benefit of spacecat and Yaleguy, this is just one of the many costs we have to consider. Bog standard tradesman PL is of no use in our industry.[/b]

alumni · 22 Mar 2011

macsecurity2011 said:
They do not interfere with any H&S issues the doors open the same way they always did and the door operation through the access system is exactly as it always would have worked regardless of side, and to be fair they look a lot better because they are fitted to the frame as opposed to the other side on Z & L brackets. Horrible lookinbg things in my opinion!

Fitted to frame??
So they are bolted to the underside of the door frame then?
Oh dear. Building Regs. A Government/Local Authority property. This has the potential to cost you a great deal of money.

Alarm · 23 Mar 2011

You can also get some rather neat Z & L brackets now.
Shaped rears, even "plated". Or have them stained to match the doors.

bob-the-builder · 23 Mar 2011

Europlex · 23 Mar 2011

bob-the-builder said:
macsecurity2011 said:

ALARM, of course i am looking for an out. One of my guys has fitted 5 double maglocks on the wrong side of double hardwood doors!

Click to expand...

Dodgy tradesmen that are always looking for an out are what gives the trade a bad name.

If your company was at all reputable then you would immediately admit blame, rectify the job for the customer free of charge, provide further training for the incompetent employee concerned and absorb the cost within the business as a hard lesson learned.

Good service is how to win customers back again and again, not snaking your way out of a bodged job.

The truth always hurts.

Time to bite the bullet me thinks.

Alarm · 23 Mar 2011

Damn and there was me thinking I was too harsh.

Its a fluck up, someone will be found out.

Glad to see you have 4 yrs of experience OP, another 23 you`ll catch me up.
Still never fitted Mag the wrong side, or left an apprentise unaware.

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

MAG LOCKS-SECURE SIDE?

Alarm

Alarm

Alarm

Alarm

bob-the-builder

Alarm

Similar threads