Placement and accessibility of shower isolator switch

crj10 · 15 Jun 2011

As part of recent renovations, my employer's landlord has fitted out a room as combined shower and disabled lavatory. The shower is fitted with an isolator switch, but it's in an electrical supply cupboard outside the shower room and a few metres away.

Now the fire safety people have come and said that cupboard must be kept locked.

To me, siting the shower's isolator switch in the same locked cupboard as the distribution board that supplies it seems absurd as it defeats the whole point of the exercise. But can anyone point at a rule that is being broken?

JohnW2 · 15 Jun 2011

crj10 said:
As part of recent renovations, my employer's landlord has fitted out a room as combined shower and disabled lavatory. The shower is fitted with an isolator switch, but it's in an electrical supply cupboard outside the shower room and a few metres away.
Now the fire safety people have come and said that cupboard must be kept locked.
To me, siting the shower's isolator switch in the same locked cupboard as the distribution board that supplies it seems absurd as it defeats the whole point of the exercise. But can anyone point at a rule that is being broken?

I think this issue potentially goes way beyond the shower isolator. 513.1 of BS7671 essentially requires 'virtually everything' to be accessible, and in common sense terms that should include the distribution board and, with it, means of isolating the whole installation in an emergency. 513.1 specifically says "Such facility shall not be significantly impaired by mounting equipment in an enclosure or compartment" - and I would have thought that a locked cupboard could well violate that.

Hence the question I would be asking myself is whether the regulations allow the cupboard to be locked, whatever the fire safety people might say. I don't know how the regulations are normally interpreted in this respect, but I know how I personally feel they should be interpreted! I'll be interested to hear what others say about this.

Kind Regards, John.

westie101 · 15 Jun 2011

Hence the question I would be asking myself is whether the regulations allow the cupboard to be locked, whatever the fire safety people might say. I don't know how the regulations are normally interpreted in this respect, but I know how I personally feel they should be interpreted! I'll be interested to hear what others say about this.

A failing of the modern world is conflicting requirements of different authorities and the, often, personal interpretation of legislation.

At the end of the day only the people who have written the rules or a court of law can decide what the rules actually mean!

JohnW2 · 15 Jun 2011

...and I should perhaps have added, common sense would tend to suggest to me that impeding access (with a lock) to the means of isolating the electrical supply in emergencies sounds detrimental (rather than beneficial) to fire safety!

Kind Regards, John.

Adam_151 · 15 Jun 2011

JohnW2 said:
...and I should perhaps have added, common sense would tend to suggest to me that impeding access (with a lock) to the means of isolating the electrical supply in emergencies sounds detrimental (rather than beneficial) to fire safety!

Kind Regards, John.

The idea I presume is to try and keep the mains cupboard free of cardboard boxes and the like.....

It doesn't often work, normally it appears that someone has obtained the key from teh cartakers of teh building and then filled it with cardboard boxes and locked it back up... no one is ever sure who this someone was...

And no one ever understands that switch room does not equal broom cupboard!!

JohnW2 · 15 Jun 2011

Adam_151 said:
[The idea I presume is to try and keep the mains cupboard free of cardboard boxes and the like.....
It doesn't often work, normally it appears that someone has obtained the key from teh cartakers of teh building and then filled it with cardboard boxes and locked it back up... no one is ever sure who this someone was...
And no one ever understands that switch room does not equal broom cupboard!!

Yes, I imagine that your presumption about the thinking behind it is probably correct. However, as you say, if one factors in 'human nature', it's probably flawed thinking - and I still feel that locking away the control and protection gear (particularly if surrounded by those cardboard boxes!) is likely to increase, rather than decrease, fire risk - as well as some electrical risks.

Kind Regards, John.

ban-all-sheds · 15 Jun 2011

Mad.

Any fule kno that a lockable cupboard like that is where you store the half-used tins of paint, bottles of white spirit, rags soaked in Danish Oil etc.

westie101 · 15 Jun 2011

Ah but don't forget that a locked cupboard door (in fact most locked doors) is no barrier to a fire fighter

JohnW2 · 15 Jun 2011

westie101 said:
Ah but don't forget that a locked cupboard door (in fact most locked doors) is no barrier to a fire fighter

Sure, but if it wasn't locked in the first place, there might well not be a need for any fire fighters, so they could find some other doors to test their strength and tools on!

Kind Regards, John.

crj10 · 17 Jun 2011

JohnW2 said:
Sure, but if it wasn't locked in the first place, there might well not be a need for any fire fighters, so they could find some other doors to test their strength and tools on!

I'm sure they could have plenty of fun hacking open cupboards at random until they discovered which ones that contained the distribution boards...

holmslaw · 17 Jun 2011

JohnW2 · 17 Jun 2011

holmslaw said:
It is ok to have the cu (fuseboard) inside a locked cupboard to prevent unauthorised fiddling about.

Do you feel that's compliant with 513.1 - which, as I said previously, includes "Such facility shall not be significantly impaired by mounting equipment in an enclosure or compartment" ?

Kind Regards, John

holmslaw · 17 Jun 2011

JohnW2 · 17 Jun 2011

holmslaw said:
513.1, another one for the ignore list.

Fair enough!

holmslaw said:
Switchgear in all sorts of premises is installed inside locked cupboards/switchrooms to prevent unauthorised access. One main reason being the tenants have no right of access to the landlords equipment.

It's really an example of the classic swings and roundabouts regarding safety and security. I obviously have some sympathy with the 'security' side, but would personally feel that the occupants really should at least have unhindered access to some means of completely isolating their electrical installation. I would certainly feel uncomfortable if I didn't have access to such a means of isolation in my home, wouldn't you?

holmslaw said:
There is also "safety services" switchgear installed all over uk that can only be accessed by removing bolted on covers, ie access is deliberately made difficult.

Agreed, but a spanner is a bit more universal than a key!

Kind Regards, John.

holmslaw · 17 Jun 2011

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Placement and accessibility of shower isolator switch

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