Do I have two BT master sockets?

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Hi - hope someone can help. I've got a rather odd BT set up. I want to move some of the cables and sockets, but I'm nervous about getting it wrong or doing something BT won't approve of.

The BT line enters my flat next to my front door and goes straight into a small rectangular white junction box with no sockets. This box is about the size of a matchbox and has no obvious electrical components inside (eg no capacitors). It contains two small plastic connectors each of which has three blue/white wires inserted into it, making six in all (presumably two in and four out). It has the BT 'piper' logo on the front.

Two cables emerge from that box and each of these ends up at a larger box about 60mm x 60mm. They both have sockets, both contain capacitors, and both have BT logos (one with the old 'T' symbol, the other with the 'piper'). Inside they are both wired only with the blue/white wires into sockets 2 and 5.

At the moment this arrangement all works fine, including with microfilters, broadband, etc.

Can anyone explain what's going on here and whether this is all correctly wired up? Do I effectively have two master sockets, and is this a problem?
 
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Pics?

Are both the NTE5a type? With removeable bottoms?

images


In the box by the door, are there just two joints? the blue/white and white/blue? Any others joined together? For example and oranges from one socket to the other?

I would take some pics, host them here or at tinypic.com, and bung them up in a post so we can see.....
 
Lectrician, thanks for your reply. None of the boxes involved are NTE5 types - there is one very small box by the front door that seems to serve merely as a splitter which serves two other larger boxes each with a phone socket. No removable bottoms - you have to take the whole of the front off to see inside.

None of the boxes have any orange/white wires connected at all, either to each other or to the connections inside the sockets. All orange/white wires are simply left unconnected to anything.

The incoming cable from BT has blue/white, orange/white and green/white cables.

If this doesn't help I will see if I can take some pics!
 
it appears that you have TWO lines and TWO master sockets:

put a phone in one to see if you can dial out, if you can thats your line

check the other one, if you get no dial tone and you cannot call out, its a dead one

the little oblong box is a block terminal, used to terminate incoming lines and or connections to other equipment IE alarm panels.

Oasis
photo would be nice as well!!
 
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He said the small connecters have two in and four out and that both sockets work as he expects so it is the same (one) line with two sockets.

OP in your case the engineer has simply chosen to connect an extension at the small junction box instead of taking it from the master socket as would be the normal practice. For convenience perhaps.

You can proceed as normal to move / reterminate the cables as you would expect to, nothing special to consider about your installation.
 
Yes indeed, both sockets work fine. I am quite sure I don't have two lines.

One of the things I would like to do is replace one of the sockets with a double ADSL/phone socket with built in microfilter. However I am nervous about doing this as I don't know if the double ASDL/phone socket which I have already bought has the right components - capacitor etc - to protect BT's line. If either or both of my two sockets are master sockets then I'm not sure I should be fiddling with them...?
 
Don’t worry about it there is no line protection in the box, the capacitor is for the bell and the little resistor is for testing from a remote location and there is a lightning surge protector. As long as you keep the same colours on two three and five connectors you will be OK. No one at BT will be any the wiser and they won’t care. If you mess it up the worst that can happen is you will have to pay someone to put it right.
If you decide to have a go cut the wires close rather than pulling them off the connector, then you can always get back to where you started from. Or take photos.
To main line jacks are not needed unless you are using a extension off two wires instead of three. Whoever fitted it originally must have just had line jacks on his van and no extension sockets

The correct way should be Blue white/ white blue coming in to the little box, then the same out to the first line jack terminating on two and five. Then a new length of wire from the first jack to the second terminating on two and five and in addition orange/ white terminating on three. You can push them in with a Stanley knife if you do not have the proper tool, don’t use a screwdriver this will spread the connector too much.
 
It seems that you have an unusual and rare old wiring circuit. Two master sockets have been connected to one incoming junction box. It was sometimes done but was not ideal.
This is OK for phones, but not good for broadband.
I suggest that you completely disconnect one of the existing phone sockets from the initial connection box.
Then replace the remaining connected one with a new Adapted filtered face plate NTE5. Just connect two wires from the incoming connection box to the very back A/B connectors on the new filtered NTE5)
Then connect this to any further ADSL points you wish to fit AND any further phone sockets.
(Use the A/B connectors for broadband, and the 2,3,5 connectors for phone
within the filtered face plate respectively.
You can do this legitimately without involving BT.
 
Thanks guys, really helpful advice. I think I have figured out why the wiring is the way it is...

The junction box is in my front hall, which is very narrow. From there one cable goes to the socket in my living room, and the other goes further down the hallway and ends up at the other socket into my bedroom. There is no way I could put a phone in the hallway - it would just get in the way as the junction box is right by the door. So I'm thinking the BT engineer figured this out and decided just to provide two sockets in the place they were needed. The alternative would have been to take the main cable all the way to the living room socket (master) and then extend off that back out into the hall and then into the bedroom (extension), which would have involved more cable.

It sounds easy enough to move the masters, but what I also want to do is chuck one of the masters and replace it with a flush Commtel ADSL/phone splitter with built in microfilter. Does anyone know if these splitters have all the relevant components built in so they work "as if" they were a master? (the instructions claim it "replaces existing wall plate" but that could mean anything!)
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The alternative would have been to take the main cable all the way to the living room socket (master) and then extend off that back out into the hall and then into the bedroom (extension), which would have involved more cable.

It could have been done by adding a secondary socket and bringing the ringer feed back from the master by just linking the orange/white through the junction box. But that would still be far from ideal for ADSL.

It sounds easy enough to move the masters, but what I also want to do is chuck one of the masters and replace it with a flush Commtel ADSL/phone splitter with built in microfilter. Does anyone know if these splitters have all the relevant components built in so they work "as if" they were a master? (the instructions claim it "replaces existing wall plate" but that could mean anything!)

Many do, but there are different types. The types which are designed to fit in place of the original NTE5 lower plate will have the ringer capacitor etc. and terminals to provide for the 3-wire connection to extension jacks. But there are others which do not, as indicated here:

http://www.commteluk.com/catalogue/computing/adsl-faceplates

The best arrangement is to install one filter where the line enters the house, before any junction boxes which split it off to various extension jacks. If that is not a convenient place in which to locate your ADSL modem for connection, you should then extend the unfiltered line directly to one, and only one, jack located at a suitable location. That way you keep the DSL and voice as separate as possible, avoid the need for multiple filters at each extension, and avoid bridge taps on the line which can degrade the DSL performance.
 
You are correct as to why two masters have been fitted.
To achieve your objectives, obtain a master NTE5 and use this in the hall. (You don't have to plug a phone into it, so it can effectively just "replace" the function of that old connection box) Fit this close to the connection box. (You are not supposed to remove the connection box and simply connect it directly to the incoming wires on the connection box :) ;) ;) , although a BT engineer would do that for about £100)

Fit the front with a replacement adapted filtered face plate.


http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/ADSL_Installation.html


You can then run two or more cables to new extension sockets,. To suit yourself, these can be fitted with ADSL , telephone or both outlets, using one wire pair to ADSL outlets from AB and a second pair to the Telephone socket from 2/5 point on the face plate half of your new "master" (3 if for very old phonesets).

You then have ADSL fitted wherever you want it and phone outlets that are all filtered without need for any trailing microfilters

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