New ceiling - Why is everyone against downlights?

Im just about to replace a water-damaged ceiling after having a new glass fibre flat roof (now with a slope!) on an extension 5.2m x 4.3m.
We have been costing up LED downlights - 3 rows of 4 on 2 circuits /switches, probably dimmable. At present we have 2 sets of 3 x 40w and boy, does it show the consumption on my monitor!

After reading several threads most people seem to be against downlights, but quoting 50w per light which is obviously using halogen and just as expensive to run as ordinary bulbs. Ive been researching LED 4W or 7W, cool white - more expensive to buy initially but much cheaper to run. But how much light do the give? Our plan is to have either all 12, 8 or 4 on, depending on usage of room.
However im not too sure of building regs - if fitted with LED and not halogen, do they still have to be in enclosed, fire rated fittings or can LEDs be fitted in the cheaper non enclosed fittings - tho it might be wiser to be safe anyway.

The gap from ceiling to roof is 175 mm and we are putting in 50mm insulation board (as we discovered insulation was almost non existant!)

To a certain extent lighting is down to personal opinion, but lets have some proper spec quotes or advice between halogen and LED. Not just wattage, but also the light spread and other ratings etc.

any help with regs appreciated!
Richard

The clue is in the name. They are not called room lights.

Not a very helpful answer.

i have nothing against down lighters but you need 2 to 3 times the number off bulbs to give a good room coverage
in other words an acceptable light level achieved by 2x6w leds[around 120w normal bulb]will require 24 to 36w leds worth off down lighters
in the same way a hose will require a lot more water to give you full coverage rather than a shower head

The main problem with the small 50mm downlights is that they create tiny pools of light directly below them - exactly what you DON'T want when illuminating a room.
Hence people have to use excessive numbers of them, which leads to single rooms with 600W+ of lighting in there.

To demonstrate this effect, something which has been suggested on this forum before is to find a room with a normal pendant light in it, switch on and then put a tube of black cardboard over the lamp.
The light output and energy useage is the same, but it is now concentrated in a small spot on the floor, so most of the room is in darkness.

Other issues include

• the vast amount of heat generated which can lead to overheating and fires above the ceiling
  the huge cost of electricity
  cutting holes in loft insulation to accommodate them results in massive heat loss
  moisture laden air going into the roof space above through the holes
  sound transmission via the holes
  frequent lamp replacement due to the large number of lamps involved
  incompatibility with many types of dimmer
  shortened lamp life when used with any dimmer
  lamps failing in service and destroying expensive dimmer switches
  discolouration of certain types of ceiling finishes
  poor quality lamps exploding and showering the room below with molten glass
  people fitting the wrong type of lamp and causing overheating damage (dichroics when they should be PAR)
  individuals installing the wrong lamp wattage (50W instead of 20W) causing the transformers to fail
  installing them correctly costs far more than proper lighting would
  installing them poorly/cheaply will cause all kinds of problems and won't comply with building regulations
  a new ceiling is required when you eventually decide that they are rubbish and want proper lighting installing instead

That's more helpful.

Most people on this forum have an adversity to halogen downlights...with a big issue being what an inefficient way it is to illuminate a room.

However, a lot of people like the shadows and textures created by this type of lighting and that, coupled with super low wattage LEDs may make it seem less inefficient. There are quite a few LED downlights around with a very favourable light output but your choice of 'cool white' may be a bit clinical for a domestic setting


If, a little later, you decide that you too are not a fan......you will have a ceiling full of holes....

The latest Philips generation 3 LEDs are really good, excellent colour rendering and 50000 hrs, 11w and brighter than a 50w halogen.

Cant find them cheaper than £28 though

simond said:

The latest Philips generation 3 LEDs are really good

Click to expand...

I'm sure they are - but they are the same physical size, so you will still need excessive numbers of them to light the room.
Most of the other problems still apply.

The colour rendering index is buried well down the Philips catalogue.

For LED lamps, the CRI is 80. That's the minimum.

European standard EN12464-1 says that lamps with a CRI of below 80 are not to be used where people work or stay for lengthy periods.