house rewire

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hey, i want to re wire an old victorian house. to save money i\\\'m going to run the cable and replace sockets lights etc myself. can someone tell me if i\\\'m right before i do it and pay someone to come make the final connections - i want a 10 way circuit breaker thingy, 3 ring mains (1 for kitchen)at 4mm2, 2 lighting circuits at 1.5mm2, shower at 6mm2 and cooker at 10mm. also 1 for the emmersion heater and one for the garage (at bottom of garden) what size will i need for the last 2? and does it sound alright? thanks to anyone who even made it to the bottom
Dave
 
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Hi,

I'm not being funny.. but i really think you should let someone who knows what there doing do it...

too save money you could buy the accessories and clear your whole house out so access is very easy... with re-wires i've done there is nothing more annoying than wasteing time moving stuff!

However if u were to go ahead and do it your self... my advice is use:

Lighting: 1.5mm2
Down/Up Ring: 2.5mm2
Kitchen Ring: 2.5mm2.... (hob?)
Shower: 6mm? (dont know A rating)
Cooker: 6mm/10mm (dont know rating)
Immersion: 1.0mm2/1.5mm2 (use flex if going to boiler... etc..)
Garden:3core 2.5mm2 Armoured?( what are you running?)
Bonding Gas, water: 10mm2 single
Supp bonding: 4mm2?

Without seeing your house i cannot say... hope it helps.

Carlos
 
Immersion will require a dedicated 16amp circuit fed via 2.5mm cable

Your 'breaker box' chould be a split load type.

Shower would be best wired in 10mm regardless of size. (as would cooker really).

2.5mm for the rings.

All this really depends on the size of the house.....if it was huge, it would require the cables to be increased in size.

Do you know your earthing arrangements??





You will struggle to find a spark willing to make the final connection and certify the job for you - best to work closelt with an electrician, and you do the donkey work like holes and chases, fitting the back boxes etc etc - leave the cable running and connections to an expert.
 
davedasave said:
hey, i want to re wire an old victorian house. to save money i\\\'m going to run the cable and replace sockets lights etc myself. can someone tell me if i\\\'m right before i do it and pay someone to come make the final connections - i want a 10 way circuit breaker thingy, 3 ring mains (1 for kitchen)at 4mm2, 2 lighting circuits at 1.5mm2, shower at 6mm2 and cooker at 10mm. also 1 for the emmersion heater and one for the garage (at bottom of garden) what size will i need for the last 2? and does it sound alright? thanks to anyone who even made it to the bottom
Dave

Who were you going to pay to make the final connections? and what do you mean by "final connections"? By all means do it yourself, but tell local building control about it first, who will charge to inspect your work at several stages.

No spark, part p or not, will put their name to someone elses work without throroughly inspecting the whole lot (every length of cable).

Why 4mm² for a ring main? all ring mains can be done in 2.5mm² and having 3 is a good idea.

Do a search for garage / shed power on this forum for this topic.

Immersion power can be run in 2.5mm² from 16A breaker.

I really think you should get a professional in.
 
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davedasave said:
hey, i want to re wire an old victorian house. to save money
What's more important? Safety or money?

i\\\'m going to run the cable and replace sockets lights etc myself. can someone tell me if i\\\'m right before i do it and pay someone to come make the final connections
Who is that someone? Have you found that someone? Is he going to lie to Building Control about having done the installation himself, or do you plan to notify them in advance? Do you know if they will be happy with your plan, and this someone's final connection? Who will be the competent person signing the design and installation sections of the EIC? Will this someone be testing the installation, or just connecting it up?

- i want a 10 way circuit breaker thingy
Is this a windup?
Do you know what sort? Do you know what type of supply you have? Have you considered 314-01-01 in your design of circuits and protective devices? Do you know what size of main equipotential bonding conductors and main earthing cable you need?

3 ring mains (1 for kitchen)at 4mm2, 2 lighting circuits at 1.5mm2, shower at 6mm2 and cooker at 10mm.
Why have you chosen such unusual cable sizes?

also 1 for the emmersion heater and one for the garage (at bottom of garden) what size will i need for the last 2?
Is the petrol consumption I am getting from my car OK?

and does it sound alright?
Err - no.

Read these, and try again:

0852028172.02._PE30_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852028172

0863413749.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863413749

or http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 261


0953788539.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953788539

or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Electricians_Guide_Book/index.html


Wr234.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 234

Wr235.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 235

Wr236.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 236

Wr237.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 237

Wr238.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 238

Wr239.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 239

Wr240.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 240

Wr250.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 250

Wr500.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 500


The Electricians Guide shown above is a good explanation of the regs, but if you fancy one with a bit more of the electrical engineering theory behind it all, I can recommend this:

0852962371.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852962371

or http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=NS 031

IMPORTANT NOTE - when buying books from Amazon, seek confirmation that they are the latest versions.
 
i've spoken to building control at my local council and they are happy for me to do most of the work as long as i follow my electricians guideance
I ain't stupid, when i said make the final connections, i also meant for him to fully test it. i don't know about my earth arrangements? any help there would be good, its just so i know what i'm talking about when the electrician comes so i understand him. thanks for the help with wire sizes, i shall buy some reels of it tonight.
 
davedasave said:
i've spoken to building control at my local council and they are happy for me to do most of the work as long as i follow my electricians guideance
Will they take your word for it that you have followed his guidance, or will they want him to certify that you have?

What inspection(s) at what stage(s) will they, or he, want to do?

Have you found an electrician to work like this?

i don't know about my earth arrangements? any help there would be good,
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=141310#141310

its just so i know what i'm talking about when the electrician comes so i understand him. thanks for the help with wire sizes, i shall buy some reels of it tonight.
Please come back and tell us about finding an electrician, and what he'll be doing and charging...
 
thanks ban, so i won't know what earth i have till i look at the meter?

Do you know what size of main equipotential bonding conductors and main earthing cable you need? erm....... no do you? what are they? like i say i'm not going to put myself and wife in danger by doing stuff i don't know but all this info is making it clear in my head so i know what i'm talking about when the electrician comes
 
davedasave said:
thanks ban, so i won't know what earth i have till i look at the meter?

Do you know what size of main equipotential bonding conductors and main earthing cable you need? erm....... no do you? what are they? like i say i'm not going to put myself and wife in danger by doing stuff i don't know but all this info is making it clear in my head so i know what i'm talking about when the electrician comes

It depends on what type of supply you have, TN-S, TN-CS, TT.
 
davedasave said:
thanks ban, so i won't know what earth i have till i look at the meter?

Do you know what size of main equipotential bonding conductors and main earthing cable you need? erm....... no do you? what are they? like i say i'm not going to put myself and wife in danger by doing stuff i don't know but all this info is making it clear in my head so i know what i'm talking about when the electrician comes
1) Log onto Amazon and buy these:

0852028172.02._PE30_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852028172

0863413749.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863413749

or http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 261


0953788539.02.MZZZZZZZ.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953788539

or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Electricians_Guide_Book/index.html

even though you'll be working to somebody else's instructions, you should know the whys and wherefores of what you are doing.

2) Whilst you wait for them to arrive, you can read the Electrician's Guide on-line here: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm
 
Definitely read the books that Ban is pushing, if you are doing this to save money then the cost of the books is effectively s*d all compared to the cost of labour to rewire a whole big old house.

Couple of points:

6mm for a shower - you really want 10mm so you can use a nice big powerful electric shower.

4mm for an immersion is better. The additional cost is not very much, and the additional work is negligible... but it means you can upgrade to dual immersion heaters much more readily.
 
can i run the shower and emmersion on the same 10mm?
what size earth bonding do i need?
is 1.5mm ok for the lights or should i go for 2mm because i want halogen lights?
how do you work out how much power a cable can take> is there a table to work it out?
cheers for the help guys
 
davedasave said:
can i run the shower and emmersion on the same 10mm?
No.

what size earth bonding do i need?
It depends. The OSG will have full details.

is 1.5mm ok for the lights or should i go for 2mm because i want halogen lights?
No such thing as 2mm² - next size up is 2.5mm², but why do you think you need bigger cables for halogen lights?

how do you work out how much power a cable can take> is there a table to work it out?
There are many tables. The key ones are reproduced in the OSG, but for the full set add this to your list of books:

Wr250.jpg
http://www.iee.org/Publish/Books/WireAssoc/index.cfm?book=WR 250

You will also find tables in the Electricians Guide, along with details of the calculations you need to do to allow for ambient temperature, grouping, installation in conduit and insulation etc etc. - The on-line chapter is this one: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.3.1.htm

Should keep you occupied until your books arrive... ;)
 
cheers mate
I was told to go for 2mm (probably meant 2.5mm) because halogen lights when starting draw more current but if 1.5mm is ok i'll ok for that
Also what does OSG mean?
Better book a couple of weeks off work so i can get all this reading done!! :eek:
 

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