Ive gor a little project to be made of mdf and plan to paint in a dulux trade water based eggshell diamond. Also going with zinsser bin primer. Anyway my quedtion is around rollers and brushes. Ive only ever got cheap thow awsyvstuff before and wanted to get some decent ones for this job to get a nice finish. Im looking for suggsstions on types and makes etc. Not to pricey.
brush and roller advice
- Thread starter djcla
- Start date
Sponsored Links
Trouble is with bin is its shellac based so needs cleaning in meths (i think) so i always use a cheap brush and bin it, it also dries so fast i wouldn't want to mess up one of my decent brushes.
I use purdy, picasso and corona synthetics and wooster bristles, if your looking for an all rounder that you'll clean and look after go with a purdy box set, they're usually on offer somewhere if you look around. Guess your looking for a mini roller sleeve? can't help much with that as i only ever use cheap ones for doing down the back of radiators, mohair could be useful but someone else will know, you'll have to lay off with a brush anyway.
Just to say little green and paint and paper library are much better eggshells than dulux, you'll only pay an extra couple of quid but the difference in quality is massive.
I use purdy, picasso and corona synthetics and wooster bristles, if your looking for an all rounder that you'll clean and look after go with a purdy box set, they're usually on offer somewhere if you look around. Guess your looking for a mini roller sleeve? can't help much with that as i only ever use cheap ones for doing down the back of radiators, mohair could be useful but someone else will know, you'll have to lay off with a brush anyway.
Just to say little green and paint and paper library are much better eggshells than dulux, you'll only pay an extra couple of quid but the difference in quality is massive.
The best mini roller I have used and still do is a Wooster Jumbo Koter with various sleeves - hardly any more than a cheapo but well worth the extra pennies -
http://www.trade1st.co.uk/wooster-jumbo-koter-frames-14-inch
A short pile sleeve will do the job -
http://www.trade1st.co.uk/jumbo-koter-pro-doo-z-roller-4-5-inch
As dcdec says, zinsser BIN needs to be cleaned with meths but it does clean out easily.
If you have a Johnstones stockists near you then please give Johnstones Acrylic Satin or Eggshell a try - I find them easier to use and they give a better finish than the Dulux Eggshell Diamond.
However, both (and the Dulux stuff) benefit from a big splash of Floetrol which helps them spread and minimizes brush marks but it isn't cheap at about £15 a litre. Failing that a bit of water will help a bit....
http://www.trade1st.co.uk/wooster-jumbo-koter-frames-14-inch
A short pile sleeve will do the job -
http://www.trade1st.co.uk/jumbo-koter-pro-doo-z-roller-4-5-inch
As dcdec says, zinsser BIN needs to be cleaned with meths but it does clean out easily.
If you have a Johnstones stockists near you then please give Johnstones Acrylic Satin or Eggshell a try - I find them easier to use and they give a better finish than the Dulux Eggshell Diamond.
However, both (and the Dulux stuff) benefit from a big splash of Floetrol which helps them spread and minimizes brush marks but it isn't cheap at about £15 a litre. Failing that a bit of water will help a bit....
do not use the cheapo foam rollers with BIN, they just swell, doubling in size and become floppy before eventually falling apart.
I too second Steve with the Wooster mini rollers, I have never had any problems with them and BIN. The only downside is that they will not fit the more common mini rollers and are difficult to buy locally here in West London.
I used to use meths but found that it wouldn't soften the brushes once the BIN had hardened and I was left with the problem of disposing of the meths after. Now I only ever clean brushes and rollers used in BIN with household ammonia. It does smell but as it is alkali it breaks the paint down rather than just diluting it. I just use an old plastic milk bottle and leave it outside. After a day or so the ammonia has evaporated leaving water with powered paint in the bottom which can be poured down the sink with no mess.
Being lazy, I often put the BIN brushes in a plastic bag until the next day, they do become stiff over night but soften again once you start to use them. On occasion I have forgotten about them and left them for a week, the ammonia still does its job though.
I guess that you could suspend them in 100% alcohol if you wanted to but its pretty flammable stuff. You can also use it to ****** the drying time but it is pretty expensive to buy in small quantities (you need to ask for denatured alcohol which has bad stuff added to prevent you from drinking it).
With regard to brushes, the best are all American, as suggested by DCDEC
Steve mentioned Floetrol, it is a must have additive that aids flow and extends your working window. There are other brands that might be cheaper such as XIM http://www.ximbonder.com/products.asp?id=41
Another must have when working with oil based paints is Owatrol but it is quite expensive, you might be able to experiment with your own mix of linseed oil and turps
I too second Steve with the Wooster mini rollers, I have never had any problems with them and BIN. The only downside is that they will not fit the more common mini rollers and are difficult to buy locally here in West London.
I used to use meths but found that it wouldn't soften the brushes once the BIN had hardened and I was left with the problem of disposing of the meths after. Now I only ever clean brushes and rollers used in BIN with household ammonia. It does smell but as it is alkali it breaks the paint down rather than just diluting it. I just use an old plastic milk bottle and leave it outside. After a day or so the ammonia has evaporated leaving water with powered paint in the bottom which can be poured down the sink with no mess.
Being lazy, I often put the BIN brushes in a plastic bag until the next day, they do become stiff over night but soften again once you start to use them. On occasion I have forgotten about them and left them for a week, the ammonia still does its job though.
I guess that you could suspend them in 100% alcohol if you wanted to but its pretty flammable stuff. You can also use it to ****** the drying time but it is pretty expensive to buy in small quantities (you need to ask for denatured alcohol which has bad stuff added to prevent you from drinking it).
With regard to brushes, the best are all American, as suggested by DCDEC
Steve mentioned Floetrol, it is a must have additive that aids flow and extends your working window. There are other brands that might be cheaper such as XIM http://www.ximbonder.com/products.asp?id=41
Another must have when working with oil based paints is Owatrol but it is quite expensive, you might be able to experiment with your own mix of linseed oil and turps
Sponsored Links
Are there any alternitivies to Zinsser BIN for MDF as its pretty expensive and im going to need at least 2.5 ltrs . I wanted to avoid water based products as they can swell the grain apparently although i thought MDF was pretty smooth. and grainless but i might be wrong. Anyway some folk recommend Zinsser 123 which is cheaper but water based 
Zinsser 123 water based is pretty good though I have not used it on bare MDF so far - I was under the impression that you had already got the BIN - that'll teach me to skim posts.
BIN does go a long way which may help lessen the cost slightly. 2.5 litres of the stuff would cover a BIG little project and maybe most of the room you are working in too I expect ! I can't really offer any guidance as to how far it goes as I tend to buy it in 1 litre tins as they just seem to last forever !
As for alternatives, well I used to use any old oil based primer but would dilute it well and apply 2 coats - since 2010 this would make for a slow old job though and I would be doing some fairly heavy sanding between coats in the edges of MDF which I expect you will be doing if you use 123 - with BIN you won't need to so much.
opps - I have not been there for a while but in Chiswick there is a Leyland DCM that I believe sells Jumbo Koter covers so may also sell the rollers. I know they are my place of choice when up in town for anything slightly hard to get. The place in the Askwew road is (or at least always was) pretty good for cheap paint too.
Down here in Cornwall I recently ordered some Zinsser peel stop and Floetrol - after 2 weeks my local Brewers had still not go it in. A 28 mile drive got me the only tin of peel stop in this part of Cornwall (central, near St Austell) so whenever up in town I try to stock up on these things or just order online..
dcdec - where do you get your Corona brushes ?
I know that Brewers are meant to be able to get them in to order (huh, not down here it seems though !) and I am lucky enough to be in contact with the guy who is trying to set up distribution of the things but otherwise I have never seen anywhere that actually stocks them. They are such good brushes to use that my purdy's rarely get to see any action these days !
BIN does go a long way which may help lessen the cost slightly. 2.5 litres of the stuff would cover a BIG little project and maybe most of the room you are working in too I expect ! I can't really offer any guidance as to how far it goes as I tend to buy it in 1 litre tins as they just seem to last forever !
As for alternatives, well I used to use any old oil based primer but would dilute it well and apply 2 coats - since 2010 this would make for a slow old job though and I would be doing some fairly heavy sanding between coats in the edges of MDF which I expect you will be doing if you use 123 - with BIN you won't need to so much.
opps - I have not been there for a while but in Chiswick there is a Leyland DCM that I believe sells Jumbo Koter covers so may also sell the rollers. I know they are my place of choice when up in town for anything slightly hard to get. The place in the Askwew road is (or at least always was) pretty good for cheap paint too.
Down here in Cornwall I recently ordered some Zinsser peel stop and Floetrol - after 2 weeks my local Brewers had still not go it in. A 28 mile drive got me the only tin of peel stop in this part of Cornwall (central, near St Austell) so whenever up in town I try to stock up on these things or just order online..
dcdec - where do you get your Corona brushes ?
I know that Brewers are meant to be able to get them in to order (huh, not down here it seems though !) and I am lucky enough to be in contact with the guy who is trying to set up distribution of the things but otherwise I have never seen anywhere that actually stocks them. They are such good brushes to use that my purdy's rarely get to see any action these days !
Thanks Steve, yeah Leyland SDM are trying out the 9" woosters. I did ask them if they would be carrying the mini rollers but they are unsure. I can get them from Ray Munn in Fulham (who also sells the excellent Anza paint pads, you have to ask for them, he also sells the 5L tins of Owatrol) but I am seldom that far south.
Re Askew Paints, the previous owners now have a small shop just behind the Dulux decorator centre in Hammersmith (Dawes Paints- Trussley Road). It is the cheapest for Dulux paints, by far, eg 2.5L DT OB eggshell BS white=£25, Leyland SDM & DDC= £34ish.
Whilst we are on the subject of quality, have you tried the japanese brand Olfa (blades and scrapers)? I have only just discovered them and would never want to go back to the generic snap off blades, they are sooo much thinner and sharper.
Are there any alternitivies to Zinsser BIN for MDF as its pretty expensive and im going to need at least 2.5 ltrs . I wanted to avoid water based products as they can swell the grain apparently although i thought MDF was pretty smooth. and grainless but i might be wrong. Anyway some folk recommend Zinsser 123 which is cheaper but water based
I have been spraying MDF with acid cat for the last 2 weeks. I can confirm that MDF whilst fairly smooth does have parallel sanding lines running down it (a result of the manufacturing process).
Although water based primers do cause the fibres in the MDf to swell they can be sanded back easily with 180g- 240g stearate coated silicone carbide paper. When hand painting MDF I use the Leyland acrylic primer/UC. It is crap but a dream to sand back and you can get 2.5L for about a tenner. I like the fact that it does eff all to seal the MDF, this means that when i apply the first (of 2) oil base eggshell, it soaks in, helping me to achieve better colour obliteration. I would not however use WB eggshell over it as the grain would swell again.
You can use cheapo OB primer if you want. Add Terebene otherwise it will take ages to cure. The downside is that if you apply the WB eggshell too soon you will get fish eyes where the solvent is still escaping (more of a problem with the thinner WB eggshells but regardless they can often be brushed out whilst the paint is starting to dry slightly)
It is difficult to advise further without knowing what you are making. Some people are happy to tint the BIN to the colour they want and just use 2 or 3 coats of that
Sorry BIN can't be tinted black, the base is too light.
It is fortunate that you are going for a mid-sheen black. High gloss black is the least forgiving, it shows every imperfection. Car sprayers use it to highlight imperfections whilst preparing areas to be sprayed.
Personally i would use grey WB primer followed OB eggshell but others have their own methods or i would use grey OB followed by the black WB eggshell. quite a rew people use the Zinsser Bull's Eye 123
Bulls eye 123 seems to be WB leaving me to find a oil based black and a pretty flat one too. Im not a big fan of oil paints find them harder to work with and they stink. It seems that saving money on the primer by going WB just means spending more on the oil based top coat. Any suggestions on an oil top coat? Ive got about 28sq metres to do thats both side with 2 coats. I dont want much of a sheen if any . Advantage of bullseye is it can be bought in drab grey
You could try a blackboard paint, it's not shiny and is durable and suited to mdf, something like this
http://www.beatsons.co.uk/painting-...8/one-coat-blackboard-paint-black-250ml-p5557
http://www.beatsons.co.uk/painting-...8/one-coat-blackboard-paint-black-250ml-p5557
Hi Steve, I got my corona brushes from the paint store in the states, cost me an arm and a leg and with hindsight was very uneconomical, i was aware of the import and VAT charges but didn't think i'd have to pay these charges on the delivery fee, wrong! I was able to pick up some paint filters as well which is useful as nowhere here seems to sell them, Brewers just look blank when i ask. Best brushes i've ever used though, i got a three inch silk, and some knights, picasso are very good too, i think purdy are gonna take a right bashing when these brushes all become commonly available.
The best way to import would be if those of us interested clubbed together and put an order in for say 30 or 40 brushes. Maybe something to think about in the new year?
The best way to import would be if those of us interested clubbed together and put an order in for say 30 or 40 brushes. Maybe something to think about in the new year?
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
