1 rad has no water and no heat

icarus_3 · 30 Oct 2005

Hi, new to this forum. Wonder if anyone can give me some advice. I have a problem with one radiator that does not get any flow to it or any heat, it is on the 2nd floor of my two storey house. It is a towel radiator in my bathroom. There is only one other radiator on the second floor and this works perfectly fine.

My problems started after my system was drained to allow a plumber to replace the other upstairs rad with a smaller one (minor pipework resizing). When he refilled the system he could not get this rad to bleed any water, and said he could not understand it since my system is a combi boiler and should be pressurised.

I have attempted to balance my system to see if this could be the issue, I have turned off flow to every rad and turned the closest one on in the chain from downstairs on very slightly till they are all hot, but this 1 rad will not fill up.

If it suck/blow on the pipe I can hear a gurgling which makes me think it may not be blocked, any ideas. Thanks in advance.

joe-90 · 30 Oct 2005

Well I may be barking up the wrong tree, but I'd say that if you can blow down it and hear gurgling the thing has been disconneted from the system. Just where is the air going to when you blow?
If, as you say, you've turned off all the rads except the one in question - then that must be the case.
As Sherlock Holmes used to say:

Eliminate the impossible and whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

joe

icarus_3 · 30 Oct 2005

Sorry maybe i didn't explain the blow/suck scenario very well! - When you suck on the open valve i can draw air forever, and eventually i get some gurgling. When I blow it is very difficult like trying to inflate a bicycle tyre with your mouth. However no air/water leaves the radiator. It's not like a disconnected radiator, and the minor pipework that has been done could not have disconnected the rad. The pipes at the bottom of the rad do not get hot at all.

joe-90 · 30 Oct 2005

But if you turn all other rads off and then start the system and still no joy - then there MUST be something fundamentally wrong. Either that or you have just proved physics wrong.
Water is harder to blow than to suck - it still sounds like there's a pipework problem to me.

joe

Softus · 30 Oct 2005

What valves are on the rad, and how have you verified that they are both open?

cross thread · 30 Oct 2005

CHECK THE BASICS .VALVES OPEN,AIR BLEED BLOCKED?

icarus_3 · 30 Oct 2005

Thanks for all the prompt responses. Been working on this for the past few hours. I've turned off every rad in the house and them starting with the first in line from my combi boiler turned each on just enough to get it piping hot (I seem to have a feed and return system - one side gets hot first and I need to allow enough open to let it out the other side). I have done this throughout the house. Still no flow to that problem rad.

I have looked under my stair case, I have 4 pipes leading up stairs, 3 are 15mm, of which 2 are piping hot, 1 is cold (this is probably my shower?) and there is also a 22mm cold pipe.

I have verified that the problem rad is on by turning the valve following the + position - is it possible that my "feed" valve could be faulty and is not letting water flow into the rad and therefore is backed up with cold water, this is the only thing I can think of? It was never a problem until recently and it is not like it was turned on/off very often.

icarus_3 · 30 Oct 2005

OK guys, last bit of troubleshooting I'm doing tonight but I've just loosened the nuts under both valves on the problem rad - there wasn't really any play in the pipes to push them down and away to really expose the olives but I would have thought some water would have leaked out if there was some feed - I could not get any water out, though I may have to take it off the wall properly to know for sure.

I don't think I have any pipe issues, as I mentioned I've got 4 pipes going up stairs, 2 x 15mm are piping hot, I think the 1 other 15mm may be for the toilet as I can see a 15mm pipe going in there, unless its 22mm to 15mm somewhere under the floor. There's a 22mm going up stairs too that is cold.

Pressure is fine in my boiler so I don't think I have a leak or anything like that (1.5 bars cold and 2.5 when hot). I really can't pull up any carpet/bathroom tiles to physically check the pipework after it exits upstairs (I have just finished the end of a big rennovation - though this rad was fine prior to system drain to fit a replacement rad to the other one upstairs).

Been messing on with this for 8 hours today - may have to call a professional!

icarus_3 · 30 Oct 2005

Sorry wanted to make sure I answered everyones questions:

Softus: What valves are on the rad? 15mm valves on both side, I think they are called "lockshield" - they are not thermostatic or anything like that just basic, in chrome.
Softus: how have you verified that they are both open? - I have followed the + mark and turned towards it.
gordongas: CHECK THE BASICS .VALVES OPEN,AIR BLEED BLOCKED? - Valves opened, tried alternating. I can bleed the problem rad, it does not fill with water, all other rad's in the house bled, all are piping hot right to the top.

Could I have a blockage, it is a pressurised system, I thought it would be very difficult to get enough "gunk" to block a pipe on a commbi boiler system?

ChrisR · 30 Oct 2005

Could I have a blockage, it is a pressurised system, I thought it would be very difficult to get enough "gunk" to block a pipe on a commbi boiler system?

Depressingly possible I'm afraid. Happens a lot with microbore. Feed pipes in conventional systems block with scale that the mains will not shift. Haven't heard ofa rad supplies blocking though.

Even if if sludge etc has blocked something, You'd still expect one side to be open. Both wouldn't block together. Unless one blocked long ago and you didn't notice. That would have meant the rad was not heating up for that time. Is that possible?

The most obvious thing to do for me, would be to revisit the work which was done to resize the other radiator. Your non working one could have been cut off. Gurgling in the pipes could be due to water laying in dismembered limbs

Softus · 30 Oct 2005

Good thoughts from ChrisR (as per usual).

Don't know why this question didn't occur to me before, but why isn't the plumber who caused this problem sorting it out?

icarus_3 · 31 Oct 2005

I know for definite that the rad worked in April/May this year - I bearly use my heating in the Summer so cannot say for definite after that.

In August I had some work done on my downstairs bathroom, another towel rad was fitted - only some basic resizing - the system was not drained as the guy was able to work by allowing some water to drain under the house and switching other downstairs rad off, which stopped the flow to this one rad, wierd? I don't think this could have caused issues to the problem rad upstairs.

In September I had the work done upstairs to move a rad - it was pipe resizing and the pipes were shortened to move in to another wall (the pipes were running past anyway so no extra bends etc.) As this was upstairs the plumber drained the system off.

When he refilled the system he got no life from the rad in the bathroom, he said that maybe it would sort itself out in due course and said that he could not possibly have caused this.

Softus · 31 Oct 2005

icarus_3 said:
I know for definite that the rad worked in April/May this year - I bearly use my heating in the Summer so cannot say for definite after that.

In August I had some work done on my downstairs bathroom, another towel rad was fitted - only some basic resizing - the system was not drained as the guy was able to work by allowing some water to drain under the house and switching other downstairs rad off, which stopped the flow to this one rad, wierd? I don't think this could have caused issues to the problem rad upstairs.

If that rad was fed from above (pipes going up the wall?) then his draining method would work just fine. However, and maybe unbeknownst to him, some sludge may have been dragged around.

icarus_3 said:
In September I had the work done upstairs to move a rad - it was pipe resizing and the pipes were shortened to move in to another wall (the pipes were running past anyway so no extra bends etc.) As this was upstairs the plumber drained the system off.

When he refilled the system he got no life from the rad in the bathroom, he said that maybe it would sort itself out in due course and said that he could not possibly have caused this.

Maybe he didn't, but I would never leave a house with a non-functioning rad when I'd finished. Even if his work didn't cause the problem, if there was risk of such a thing happening then he could/should have informed you.

Most blockages don't sort themselves out, only get worse.

icarus_3 · 9 Nov 2005

OK, thanks for all the replies. I revisited the work and found that the feed and return for the rad he reloacted actually continued on round the top floor of the house and onto the bathroom.

I found that blowing in the rad in the bathroom push some air out of the cut pipe, giving me the evidence I needed to call him back in.

He's capped the old rad valves entries and re-patched into the feed and return and my bathoom rad is now sorted.

So glad it wasn't a blockage - the funny thing I found was that even on a disconnected rad there still seems to be "pressure" which confused me and I guess the plumber.

diynot

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1 rad has no water and no heat

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