Cold radiator upstairs...searched but did not find an answer

keebler65 · 7 Dec 2005

I will begin with saying that I have no experience with radiators whatsoever, but am mechanically inclined. I live in a semi-old house that I'm renting as a college student. We live on the second floor, and it is plenty warm on this floor. In the attic on the floor above, however, it is very cold. There is a rather large radiator up there (the whole house uses radiators) but only the bottom of it gets warm. There is a valve that controls the flow, and it is wide open.

Someone suggested that I open the bleeder at the top to bleed the air. I tried this, and some air escaped. However, no water escaped (even after leaving it open for an hour). The temperature of it has not changed -- the top and middle are still room temperature. I'm starting to wonder if the system is low on water, but I do not know how to go about checking this and how to refill it. I would HIGHLY appreciate any help that you guys can offer (but please don't get too technical with the heating-specific terms, as I am new to all of this radiator stuff).

Thanks!

Gasman1015 · 7 Dec 2005

Your doing ok so far but now you need to find out how the system is filled.

Crystal balls don't cover that distance.

keebler65 · 7 Dec 2005

How would I go about doing that? When I look at the system in the basement, I am lost. Like I say, I do not really know what I am looking at. Any hints on finding out what type of system this is?

pav · 7 Dec 2005

You need to define make and model of boiler. Almost certain there is not enough pressure in the system, that's why you have no success with the upper floor radiator. Also need to state the position the boiler is located with regards to upper radiator. System should run on a pressure of 1.0 bar, try filling to 1.5 (10m rule applies).

keebler65 · 8 Dec 2005

I took a few pictures of the system just to make sure you have the info you need. I'm wondering if the small pipe that connects to the large gray canister in the 4th picture is a city water supply line, indicating it's not a closed system. This same pipe is shown in the 5th picture. I believe the system was off when the pictures were taken, so keep that in mind when reading the pressure gauge.

1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

Slugbabydotcom · 8 Dec 2005

The valve with the black handle is half closed!!!

I can't see exactly what it is from the pictures perhaps you could send even more pics

If this is on the flow pipe as I suspect then it would be worth opening it fully ie. putting the handle in line with the pipe

keebler65 · 8 Dec 2005

I tried fully opening the valve with the black handle, but I still had the same issues upstairs, where no water would come out when attempting to bleed the radiator. So since I didn't know exactly what the valve did, I put it back to where it was. Any other ideas?

mark333 · 8 Dec 2005

Hi
your problem is quite clearly lack of water pressure.
when you are in the boiler room you should look for a pipe,or hose that is connected to your mains cold water supply, and your boiler heating system.
It will have a valve on it that is in a closed position. Turn this anti clockwise and you will notice the needle on the BLUE pressure gauge start to rise.
Once you have detrmined wich valve this is leave it open a little so it slowly puts water into your system.
GO Straight upstairs and open the radiator bleed valve .
You should hear a slight hissing sound while all the air is been forced out of the radiator.
When water comes out of the bleed valve (not air and water just pure water) Close the bleed valve, then go straight down stairs to the boiler filling valve that you left open.
When the Blue gauge has about 20 lbs of prresure shut the valve.
Job done
good luck
ps, if there is more than one radiator upstairs bleed them all at the same time

keebler65 · 8 Dec 2005

Ok here's an update:

I located what I think to be the valve that controls the city water supply. My guess is that it would be the blue handled valve shown in image 5 to the left of the red pressure regulator. However, I found it turned fully on. I do not see any other valves on this line, and there is even a small droplet of water on the previously mentioned valve indicating the pipe is pressurized.

I then studied what the black valve seems to do in photo #3. Opening this valve provides a "shortcut" for the water so that it can flow directly into the boiler just as it is leaving the boiler. My guess is this is some type of pressure control, in which opening the valve would lower the system's pressure. I closed this valve all of the way, but the pressure only rose by about 2 psi. It now sits at about 12 psi when the system is on. I'm not sure what else to do to increase the system pressure. Is it possible that this system is undersized for this house? There are 5 bedrooms on the 1st floor and 6 on the second (I'm not sure about the square footage).

Gasman1015 · 8 Dec 2005

Black valve is a bypass then and should be almost closed not fully closed, to allow circulation through boiler if all circuits are closed.

You still need to get more pressure into the system.

keebler65 · 8 Dec 2005

Gasman1015 said:
You still need to get more pressure into the system.

How would I go about doing this? Could I fill the radiator upstairs directly with water? Any other ideas?

Thanks

JohnD · 8 Dec 2005

the blue valve is on a copper soldered pipe, to my eye the black iron pipes are more likely to be your incoming main services. Could one be gas and one water?

also, the convention over here is that valves like your blue one, with a wheel shaped handle, are gate valves, and not totally pressure proof (but allow an uninterupted water flow when open). a valve with a "T" handle is more usual for a main stop cock. Can you see one? Or, in the iron pipe, I see what might be a plugged-off "T" joint, or possibly a shielded valve with a square shaft inside but no handle on it. Is that possible?

A typical UK gate valve

And a typical UK stop cock

keebler65 · 9 Dec 2005

I know the gas pipe is the one that runs along the stone wall. I'm positive that the copper one carries water, because I followed it into the other roon where it taps into the water supply line. I double-checked the "T" where it taps in above the gray cylinder. There is definately no screw valve or anything like that, it's just a simple "T".

I was studying the components shown in picture #5, and there appears to be some type of one-way check valve between the gate valve and the regulator. I couldn't help but notice that the rated pressure of the regulator (12psi) is the same as the pressure that my system runs at. I'm starting to believe that the supply line is supposed to be always on. If the system pressure rises above 12psi, the check valve prevents the system water from going back into the house's water supply. However, if the pressure drops below 12psi, it will automatically be filled to 12psi. Does this make any sense?

I'm starting to run out of ideas here, other than just removing the bleed screw on the radiator and filling the radiator through there. Would this damage anything? I'm not sure what else to do...

Thanks

keebler65 · 9 Dec 2005

Ok since I'm bored, I decided to build a funnel to allow me to fill the radiator manually. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but I'm running out of options. Here is a picture for your entertainment:

keebler65 · 10 Dec 2005

Just an update...I've been slowly filling and bleeding the radiator as pictured above for the past couple days and now that it is about 75% full, the attic is very warm. Thanks for the suggestions.

Kevin

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Cold radiator upstairs...searched but did not find an answer

Similar threads