are patio heaters ethically acceptable?

nos · 19 Sep 2014

ban-all-sheds said:
nos said:

LOL - you're an idiot. Ever thought of going into standup comedy?

Click to expand...

Have you heard of climate change?

I have yes, however this is an electrical section of a DIY forum... not green peace... and I was looking for electrical advice not a lecture from a self righteous eco idiot.

ban-all-sheds said:
Are you aware that it could kill or displace and ruin the lives of 10's of millions of people?

That's subjective, but yes I heard that

ban-all-sheds said:
You think that burning fuel in order to try and warm the outside when it gets a bit chilly is a good idea, one that should not attract opprobrium.

I won't be burning fuel just to heat up the outside, that would be wasteful, but will be using energy on occasions to heat up the myself, family and friends whilst sitting outside... admittedly some heat will be wasted, as it is every time you turn the kettle on, watch tv or needlessly post on internet forums... ah hum!

ban-all-sheds said:
And I'm the idiot?

I don't think I need to answer that

nos · 19 Sep 2014

ban-all-sheds said:
He's not been at all happy to receive advice about his outdoor heating arrangements, and has become abusive over it.

abusive? I think you need to look back at your first post fella.... all I've done is respond to that by calling you an idiot.

Is calling someone an idiot abusive?

[edit] apologies, I meant your second post.

nos · 20 Sep 2014

I think you're taking things out of context in poor transparent way to justify your inarticulate ramblings tbh........

ban-all-sheds said:
I must, I absolutely must, for reasons of personal morality, and self respect, challenge the whole notion of outdoor heaters

You must, you absolutely must let us know apart for outdoor heaters what other electrical items you find morally repugnant so then every member on the forums knows in the future not to mention them, or to face the consequences and suffer the wrath of a busy idiot.

DetlefSchmitz · 21 Sep 2014

The sad thing is that on this particular subject, I agree with BAS's sentiments. I guess I'm not out to make enemies with people though. I wonder if a more informative approach would educate the people who commit this pretty potent sin? Yeah, probably not.

I have every expectation that it won't be long before heating the outside is made illegal, or at least subject to planning permission. One route to achieving this aim would be lobbying in the right place.

JohnW2 · 21 Sep 2014

DetlefSchmitz said:
The sad thing is that on this particular subject, I agree with BAS's sentiments. I guess I'm not out to make enemies with people though. I wonder if a more informative approach would educate the people who commit this pretty potent sin?

Well, I would say that 'informative' approaches are always far more likely to achieve things than confrontational or critical (or worse) ones.

I don't suppose many people would disagree in concept with BAS's concerns. However, I suspect that most of those who have (domestic) outdoor heaters probably only use them for a few hours on a few days per year. If those who criticise this spend, for example, a significant amount of time driving a one- or two-occupant private vehicle, on many days per year, then I think they probably need to look to their own impact on the environment before they become too harsh in their approach to others.

Kind Regards, John

slup · 21 Sep 2014

OK, theoretical question here.

What if someone buys their energy from a 100% renewable supplier. Are they then morally allowed patio heaters?

DetlefSchmitz · 21 Sep 2014

At the end of the day, we are going to find we have an energy deficit. This is based on the lack of interest from politicians in solving this. Only renewable sources of energy have any viability in the long term. However...

Using energy unnecessarily is already on the agenda for banning, like it or not. Power hungry illumination is already on the way out. Floodlights in the garden are, thankfully, limited in power by the planning system.

We note the ban of inefficient vacuum cleaners. More to follow.

In answer to your question, I don't think that the planning system is going to care where you buy your energy; only if you waste it in an obvious way. They will deal in low hanging fruit.

Norcon · 21 Sep 2014

We've still got scotands oil and paying them buttons for it.

Happy days.

EddieM · 21 Sep 2014

You could try one of these http://www.castironchimineas.co.uk/, other vendors are available. They obviously require no electricals, and manufacture notwithstanding, are carbon neutral.

flameport · 21 Sep 2014

slup said:
OK, theoretical question here.

What if someone buys their energy from a 100% renewable supplier. Are they then morally allowed patio heaters?

My opinion - no.
The UK has a shortage of electricity generation - a situation which will get worse before it gets better.

Wasting energy on totally unnecessary and pointless efforts to heat the outdoors is still waste, regardless of how the electricity was generated.

jockscott · 21 Sep 2014

I think BAS is more concerned about the installation complying with 17th ed regulations (or he should be) A quick look through most of his posts sees endless quoting of regulations (which a lot of sparks don't understand / or misinterpret) Anyway, if BAS wants to lecture someone on how to spend their own money, let him,,, it's a free country (although I don't believe for one moment that BAS is faintly worried about 10's of millions of lives being ruined by one person installing a bloody patio heater)

tony1851 · 21 Sep 2014

DetlefSchmitz said:
Using energy unnecessarily is already on the agenda for banning,.

You are on the slippery slope to totalitarianism.

Everything we do requires energy one way or another. Who is to decide when we are using energy 'unnecessarily'?

Would you be one of those who want to tell us when and where we can drive our cars?; how often we have a bath?; what temperature we are allowed to heat our living rooms?

ladylola · 21 Sep 2014

tony1851 said:
Everything we do requires energy one way or another. Who is to decide when we are using energy unnecessarily ?

TEQ's , and the beauty of that is that one can use one's quota as one pleases. Heat the house or the garden , it's the individual's choice but with no increase in overall consumption.

securespark · 21 Sep 2014

slup said:
OK, theoretical question here.

What if someone buys their energy from a 100% renewable supplier. Are they then morally allowed patio heaters?

So you've theoretically solved the problem of depleting finite natural resources.

What about the by-products?

Whitespirit66 · 21 Sep 2014

Why'd the mods have to park this topic here? There's enough surplus hot air going to waste here as it is.

are patio heaters ethically acceptable?

EddieM

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