Shower pump problem

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We\\\'ve recently had 2 pumps fitted in the loft to boost the showers in the main and en-suite bathrooms.

Showers are great if only cold water is used, but when temperature is increased to include hot water the pumps start making a rhythmic pulsating noise and the water pressure drops. The showers also intermittently \\\'spurt\\\' as if there\\\'s air in the pipes.

A plumber came and changed the pipe work into the hot water tank to a wider bore. No difference.

Another plumber said we might need a larger tank in the loft, and another said an Essex flange was needed.

We\\\'ve spent a fortune already and don\\\'t want to spend more on ifs and maybes. Are any of the suggestions given to us correct?

Ta :confused:
 
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Had this reported by a customer recently, but he asked me to go ahead and replace the cold storage cistern before trying to diagnose the problem.

In his case this turned out for the best, because the cistern was crying out to be replaced, and when I'd finished (job done absolutely by the book) the pulsating problem didn't happen again.

I didn't replace any pipework beyond about 1 foot from the cistern, so I suspect it was a build up of scale and yuk, possibly at the gate valve on the cistern outlet, that was restricting the flow.
 
hi i take it that you have mixer showers in both bath rooms if so are thay new if not did thay work ok before you had pumps fitted. if thay are new have the correct flow limiters been fitted these are little white discs that fit into the inlet elbows at the back of you mixer if to smaller one fitted on your hot side then this could be your prob,pumps should be fully automatic and fitted with flow switch normally requiring 1 litre per minute do you see what i mean if you pump isnt getting the water flow past it ie because the flow isnt enough to keep switch on it will turn off, like your turning off shower then it starts up thinking you are turning shower on again. anyway thats a start for you can yoy give any more details on your set up.
 
wouldbplummer said:
...pumps should be fully automatic and fitted with flow switch normally requiring 1 litre per minute do you see what i mean if you pump isnt getting the water flow past it ie because the flow isnt enough to keep switch on it will turn off, like your turning off shower then it starts up thinking you are turning shower on again.
I agree with this, but the point is to find out why the pump flow switch is detecting a reduced flow, and I believe the cause to be air in the hot supply.

This can happen if either the cold feed from cistern to hot cylinder, or the pipework/flange between cylinder and vent, is constricted. Or if air is collecting at the top of the cylinder for any reason. Anything of these will result in air being pulled down the DHW vent and into the pump. This is consistent with the report of spurting at the shower head.

An Essex flange would only solve the problem if the constriction was at the outlet or if air was collecting. However, if the cold feed is contricted then it won't achieve anything.
 
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Originally there was just one Aqualisa mixer shower in the en-suite which was great. The bar shower in the main bathroom is new, and we had a new shower cabinet with bar shower on a riser refitted into the en-suite. The plumber who fitted it said we needed pumps if we wanted to run the 2 showers with a decent spray of water.

The house is only 10 years old and the plumber who put in the wider bore pipe said there wasn't any gunk in the pipes and the cold tank in the loft is fine and clear.

He did say though that there was air in the inlet pipe of the hot water and we should squeeze it occasionally to force out the air (apparently it's flexible). But I've never heard of anyone having to squeeze the pipes of their shower to maintain the flow every time they want a shower!

If we cold water only the showers are brill. It's only when the hot water is introduced we get the problem.
 
mimlloyd said:
He did say though that there was air in the inlet pipe of the hot water and we should squeeze it occasionally to force out the air (apparently it's flexible). But I've never heard of anyone having to squeeze the pipes of their shower to maintain the flow every time they want a shower!
Nor have I. Why doesn't your original plumber eliminate this problem?!
 
We've basically lost faith in him as he just doesn't know why it's happening. Everything is maybe this and maybe that. A friend of his is the one who changed the pipe, and now he says changing the tank in the loft to a larger one MIGHT solve the problem, but he's not 100% sure.

He's only a youngish lad and only recently started refitting bathrooms and I got the feeling that he's learning a lot as he goes along!
 
OK then.

I suggest you have a very close look at how the hot supply is taken from the cylinder. Since you already mentioned an Essex flange, I assume you don't have a Surrey or a Warix flange, so what is the exact path route of pipework between the top of the cylinder to the shower pump, including position and relative height of the vent?
 
Right, here goes - hope you can understand. Firstly I'm not sure about what you mean by the 'vent'?

There is an existing pipe which goes from the main pipework against the wall of the cupboard to the hot water cylinder. It is 12in long (horizontal) then bends downwards for 4in into the tank. The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

The bathroom most affected is right next to the hot water tank and the height difference between the actual shower and the bottom of the tank in the loft is about 4 to 5 feet.
 
Right, here goes - hope you can understand. Firstly I'm not sure about what you mean by the 'vent'?

There is an existing pipe which goes from the main pipework against the wall of the cupboard to the hot water cylinder. It is 12in long (horizontal) then bends downwards for 4in into the tank. The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

The bathroom most affected is right next to the hot water tank and the height difference between the actual shower and the bottom of the tank in the loft is about 4 to 5 feet.
 
Right, here goes - hope you can understand. Firstly I am not sure about what you mean by the 'vent'?

There is an existing pipe which goes from the main pipework against the wall of the cupboard to the hot water cylinder. It is 12in long (horizontal) then bends downwards for 4in into the tank. The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

The bathroom most affected is right next to the hot water tank and the height difference between the actual shower and the bottom of the tank in the loft is about 4 to 5 feet.
 
Right, here goes - hope you can understand. Firstly I am not sure about what you mean by the 'vent'?

There is an existing pipe which goes from the main pipework against the wall of the cupboard to the hot water cylinder. It is 12in long (horizontal) then bends downwards for 4in into the tank. The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

The bathroom most affected is right next to the hot water tank and the height difference between the actual shower and the bottom of the tank in the loft is about 4 to 5 feet.
 
Right, here goes - hope you can understand. Firstly I am not sure about what you mean by the 'vent'?

There is an existing pipe which goes from the main pipework against the wall of the cupboard to the hot water cylinder. It is 12in long (horizontal) then bends downwards for 4in into the tank. The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

The bathroom most affected is right next to the hot water tank and the height difference between the actual shower and the bottom of the tank in the loft is about 4 to 5 feet.
 
The new pipe to the pump has been inserted halfway along the existing horizontal section of the pipe. It goes vertically up for 2in and then bends horizontally to parallel the existing pipe 6in back to where the main pipework is against the wall of the cupboard.

It then goes vertically upwards into the loft for almost 5 feet and then bends horizontally to the pump for 2 feet.

Completely bloody useless. WOuld expect it to give exactly the problem you have. Your existing pipework from the top of the cylnder goes "up the wall" to loop over your CW cistern in the loft. That VENT's there for if the water in the cylinder boils, and for other bubbles. But a pump will suck water straight down it, followed by a gob of air, which doesn't get pumped so the pipe refills etc etc.

Taking the shower water off the TOP of the horizontal bit is doubly stupid - all the air bubbles out of the cylinder go into the shower pipe!

As mentioned, you have to have a "flange", which means the water comes from within the cylinder. For 2 pumps you need a 3/4" (22mm) Essex in the side of the cylinder. Warix would also be ok but hard to fit to your existing pipe, Surrey would be too restrictive I expect.
 

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