Duty of Care

ACOperson · 24 Feb 2006

Question for the CORGI guys here:

A gas engineer who is at present only an OPERATIVE of a company goes into a house while not at work (ie social visit). Lets call him John for arguments sake, and the company he works for 123-heating.

John notices a gas fire showing incomplete combustion or something equally dangerous.

As he is not presently working for/on behalf of 123-heating he cannot do gas work. Does he have the authority to ask the responsible person if he can switch the dangerous applicance off?

Hmm.

corgiman · 24 Feb 2006

according to CORGI he should mention it to the relevent person and suggest that they sort it out.

if he has not been contacted in a professional capacity and he is just visiting then he has to do nothing

I had a similar experiance with a boiler in my local not long ago so I asked corgi what to do and they said the above.

Let battle commence

but as a competent person he does have the authority to ask and if turned down tell the emergency gas supplier

ollski · 24 Feb 2006

Yes or inform transco

corgigazza · 24 Feb 2006

As long as you dont get paid to cut off the appliance you are aloud to as you are a competent person for example you can service your mums boiler dont get paid then thats ok.. Last time I had an inspection from corgi I was told this from the inspector.

Or just ring transco

Agile · 25 Feb 2006

"""Does he have the authority to ask the responsible person if he can switch the dangerous applicance off? """

You dont need any "authority" to ask anyone anything!

In the UK you are not to blame if you fail to do anything when there is no obligation, pity that!

In France, you can be charged if you FAILED to do something which could have been done to prevent an injury, death or crime. ( Except a UK serving policeman is expected to at least report a crime they become aware of while off duty. )

In the senario above everyone should advise their friends and neighbours if there is anything apparently unsafe about their gas appliances, not necessarily because of any law but as a good friend or neighbour.

Tony

Paul Barker · 25 Feb 2006

When a nurse doing advanced life support training they told us that we had a duty of care to stop and help someone in the street. What if we are out of uniform we asked. Someone might know you and see that you didn't stop to help, in which case you haven't excercised your duty of care.

I fell the same about gas fitting.

You have the knowledge to save lives, you should excercise it in any situation which calls for it. It is not a legal matter it is YOU who has the duty of care, since when did duty have to be proved in law, you have the knowledge to save life, use it.

Paul Barker · 25 Feb 2006

I was changing a pump the other day. Their regular plumber was away.

What type of boiler do you have? A back boiler, oh yes can I have a look? Where is your permanent ventilation then? over there in the corner. I'm sorry but that doesn't count because you can close it. Oh it's very drafty through that. But you must have permanent ventilation which you cannot close. Well if you say so.

Not difficult is it, just like having a normal convesation.

ACOperson · 25 Feb 2006

Mr Agile & PB,

Tony, are you suggesting that we can just go about switching off appliances without asking permission of the responsible person?

I am certain that we are not allowed to do this.

Tony & PB: My question was whether we are allowed to ask their permission, and if granted, TO SWITCH OFF THEIR APPLIANCE, thereby carrying out controlled work on a gas appliance without being under company supervision & insurance etc.

I am aware that we should point out unsafe situations, what I am asking is as an operative, whether we are allowed to do anything about it or not.

Agile · 25 Feb 2006

Unless you work for Transco or a gas supplier then you cannot turn off an appliance without the permission of the owner/occupier.

An interesting situation arises when the Landlord tells you to turn it off and the tenant refuses to let you !!!

Tony

Paul Barker · 25 Feb 2006

No problem in my eyes exerting an authority which your better knowledge guides you toward.

If I saw a dangerous situation I would ask could I cap off the appliance/switch off (depending whether AR or ID) and if refused I would be on the phone to Transco. Though in reality when this situation does arise, as it does, I explain to the responsible person that I intyend to phone the gas supplier who are likely to come and turn off their supply at the meter, if permission to do so is not granted they won't hesitate to dig up the road to cut them off and a charge will be levied for reconnection. I haven't known anyone to dispute this but that is the back up we have.

All of this stems from our duty to employ our training to the better safety of the public in all situations.

ACOperson · 25 Feb 2006

So our hypothetical friend John, although not able to do any 'work' (as defined in the gas regs) unless under the auspices of 123-heat, IS able to cap the fire off with the permission of the responsible person?

Remember he is only an operative, not got his own CORGI.

ollski · 25 Feb 2006

ACOperson said:
So our hypothetical friend John, although not able to do any 'work' (as defined in the gas regs) unless under the auspices of 123-heat, IS able to cap the fire off with the permission of the responsible person?

Remember he is only an operative, not got his own CORGI.

Can I ask why he would want to?, Transco will be there normally inside 1 hr and do all the work to make safe, I can't really see any reason for John to get involved other than to bring it to the responsible person's attention and to make safe ie turn off meter.

corgiman · 26 Feb 2006

we dont really have any powers to make an end user do anything, if we find an ID or an AR we can only ask theor permission to isolate it from the gas supply and make it safe, if they refuse we then can do nothing except tell transco.

ACOperson · 28 Feb 2006

Everyone seems to be misunderstanding:

I'm not suggesting that we can do anything without permission from whoever owns or lives in a property. I was asking if a CORGI operative can do gas work without his/her parent company's permission (but WITH the permission of the owner/tenant of a property) if something looks dangerous.

ollski · 28 Feb 2006

ACOperson said:
Everyone seems to be misunderstanding:

I'm not suggesting that we can do anything without permission from whoever owns or lives in a property. I was asking if a CORGI operative can do gas work without his/her parent company's permission (but WITH the permission of the owner/tenant of a property) if something looks dangerous.

No, not for gain...but as I said why would you want to get involved?. If you do it for free it's fine.

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Duty of Care

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