Is my plumbers advice correct- Faulty Central Heating System

Trance Nation · 20 Dec 2006

Blasphemous said:
Crickey!!! 9 months ago....!!!! I would think that the X400 will have eaten everything (including your Heat Exchanger) by now

Defo a must. Was at one today where that very thing had happened - a teabag wouldve held more water.

Quote: The Customer - "Yes son, he said he was going to come back but never did...."

Brilliant

Get sum inhibitor in there pronto sharpish, hope it all works out good for ya !

micky p · 20 Dec 2006

Trance Nation said:
Blasphemous said:

Crickey!!! 9 months ago....!!!! I would think that the X400 will have eaten everything (including your Heat Exchanger) by now

Click to expand...

Defo a must. Was at one today where that very thing had happened - a teabag wouldve held more water.

Quote: The Customer - "Yes son, he said he was going to come back but never did...."

Brilliant

Get sum inhibitor in there pronto sharpish, hope it all works out good for ya !

i was told by the Sentinel rep that if you forget to drain the X400 out then all it will do is drop the contents and it will return back to as it was. All x400 does is mobilise the sludge so that it can be removed when drained. I don't think it is that all that acidic. If it was X800 ferroquest or simular then yeah maybe it would.

avidfan · 20 Dec 2006

X400 is mearly a 'suspention agent' not an aggresive cleaner. Better than nothing, just.

Afbee · 20 Dec 2006

Awesome, im glad that you have managed to fix it.. i think that i might get me some of that stuff to sort out my problem with two of my radiators.

Did you put some in all of the radiators?

How did you get on draining the system?

BOB..DOLE · 20 Dec 2006

And another thing these boilers have asbestos in them you gotta be mad to work on them.

Softus · 21 Dec 2006

Some people are missing the point about X400.

If you drain and system and refill using X400 as a cleaning agent, with the intention of later draining/flushing/refilling/adding X100 (or similar), then not only do you remove all chemical corrosion inhibition, but you also uncover some nice fresh steel to feed the corrosion process.

If you really think it's perfectly OK to leave in X400 for nine months, then why do you think the manufacturer recommends such a relatively short period of treatment?

Crystal · 21 Dec 2006

From the manufacturer's instructions.

There is no limit to the time for which the product can safely be left in the system.

oilman · 21 Dec 2006

BOB..DOLE said:
And another thing these boilers have asbestos in them you gotta be mad to work on them.

Do you do a lot with them then?

Softus · 21 Dec 2006

Crystal said:
From the manufacturer's instructions.

There is no limit to the time for which the product can safely be left in the system.

Click to expand...

"Crystal" by name, eh, but not "clear" by nature.

Here's a fuller extract from those instructions:
[code:1]Circulate for a minimum period of 2 hours,
but where heavier fouling is expected a
longer period (e.g. up to 4 weeks) will
produce better results. There is no limit to
the time for which the product can be left in
the system, allowing flushing out of debris at
the installer's convenience.[/code:1]
For the benefit of those people whom Crystal is trying to mislead, this means that a reasonable range of time to leave the chemical in the system is between 2 hours and 4 weeks. NOT 9 months.

Regardless of this recommendation, X400 is not an inhibitor, and leaving it in for 9 months means that the system is unprotected for 9 months.

I say again -

Crystal · 22 Dec 2006

Softus, what justification do you have for stating

Crystal is trying to mislead

?

mike.braund has stated that he has forgotten to remove X400 from his system but will now drain and refill using an inhibitor, which is what I would do under such circumstances.

I consider that alarmist statements such as

Crickey!!! 9 months ago....!!!! I would think that the X400 will have eaten everything (including your Heat Exchanger) by now

and

Defo a must. Was at one today where that very thing had happened - a teabag wouldve held more water.

and

Get sum inhibitor in there pronto sharpish, hope it all works out good for ya !

and

If you really think it's perfectly OK to leave in X400 for nine months, then why do you think the manufacturer recommends such a relatively short period of treatment?

are better tempered by the views of the treatment manufacturer

...Sentinel X400 should be circulated, preferably at normal operating temperature, with all valves open and the pump turned to a maximum flow for a minimum period of 2 hours or until satisfactory performance is restored. Where systems are badly fouled, a longer period of circulation (e.g., up to 4 weeks) is recommended, but the product will not clear a completely blocked pipe.
There is no limit to the time for which the product can safely be left in the system...

I have today spoken to Sentinel technical support to ask if leaving X400 in a system for nine months would result in corrosion, the reply that I received was “not at all”, although it was further explained that the sludge could resettle and that inhibitor is the appropriate treatment.

Whilst I would not myself leave X400 in a system for an extended period and always use inhibitor, I do not believe that the OP will have destroyed his system as some are implying.

Softus · 22 Dec 2006

Crystal said:
Softus, what justification do you have for stating

Crystal is trying to mislead

Click to expand...

?

The fact that you chose to quote only ¼ of the MIs, thereby creating the false impression that no harm can come from leaving X400 in the system for ever.

mike.braund has stated that he has forgotten to remove X400 from his system but will now drain and refill using an inhibitor, which is what I would do under such circumstances.

He never said that he forgot - this is another misrepresentation of the truth. You're on a roll.

I consider that alarmist statements such as

Crickey!!! 9 months ago....!!!! I would think that the X400 will have eaten everything (including your Heat Exchanger) by now

Click to expand...

Agreed - alarmist. Also inaccurate, since X400 doesn't "eat" metal.

...and

Defo a must. Was at one today where that very thing had happened - a teabag wouldve held more water.

Click to expand...

This is someone claiming to have seen a bad outcome in the same scenario. Not alarmist at all.

and

Get sum inhibitor in there pronto sharpish, hope it all works out good for ya !

Click to expand...

This is just some positive encouragement to do what you said you would advocate.

and

If you really think it's perfectly OK to leave in X400 for nine months, then why do you think the manufacturer recommends such a relatively short period of treatment?

Click to expand...

This was my own comment, and was based on the fact that the recommended period is between 2 hours and 4 weeks. NOT 9 MONTHS.

...are better tempered by the views of the treatment manufacturer

Agreed, but you didn't present more than ¼ of the "views of the treatment manufacturer".

I have today spoken to Sentinel technical support to ask if leaving X400 in a system for nine months would result in corrosion, the reply that I received was “not at all”, although it was further explained that the sludge could resettle and that inhibitor is the appropriate treatment.

If that's what you asked, and if that was the reply, then you're both wrong. Leaving a system for 9 months without adding an inhibitor will lead to corrosion. I've seen what happens and it isn't pretty.

Whilst I would not myself leave X400 in a system for an extended period and always use inhibitor, I do not believe that the OP will have destroyed his system as some are implying.

If you don't believe it then why would you add an inhibitor?

oilman · 22 Dec 2006

Softus said:
Crystal said:

Softus, what justification do you have for stating

Crystal is trying to mislead

Click to expand...

?

Click to expand...

The fact that you chose to quote only ¼ of the MIs, thereby creating the false impression that no harm can come from leaving X400 in the system for ever........................

I am not going to go through the whole diatribe, but from what I read, Crystal is justified in quoting only the necessary sentence as it was in response to the panic ridden statements by several posters.

There would be no harm caused to the system leaving the X400 in for as long as 9 months, and while corrosion does take place where inhibitors have not been used, I have come across plenty of systems which are not destroyed by never having corrosion inhibitor EVER. It is not a good approach for long life, and providing huge amounts of new water to the system would certainly shorten it.

The problem seems to be, once people saddle up and mount their horse, they are reluctant to dismount.

Softus · 22 Dec 2006

oilman said:
I am not going to go through the whole diatribe, but from what I read, Crystal is justified in quoting only the necessary sentence as it was in response to the panic ridden statements by several posters.

One. One post was panic-ridden. And Crystal didn't quote a full sentence, merely a ½ sentence.

There would be no harm caused to the system leaving the X400 in for as long as 9 months...

Well I beg to differ, not only in theory but in practise. If a system has been corroding, and you dose it with sludge dissolver, then the corrosive process will increase, not decrease. If you think this doesn't happen then I'd love to hear your theory about those times when I've seen it happen.

...and while corrosion does take place where inhibitors have not been used, I have come across plenty of systems which are not destroyed by never having corrosion inhibitor EVER.

Me too. Given that the process is electrolysis, then there are bound to be systems at both ends of the continuum, but this topic isn't about those systems that haven't been corroding.

The problem seems to be, once people saddle up and mount their horse, they are reluctant to dismount.

The problem is one of people misrepresenting the facts. If you regard my reaction to that as being on a high horse, so then so be it, but at least I'm not wrong.

oilman · 22 Dec 2006

Softus said:
.............. at least I'm not wrong.

Of course you're not, it's everybody else.......

Softus · 22 Dec 2006

Ah, the old oilman sarcasm. I knew something was missing from my life.

I'm quite happy to say I'm wrong, when I'm wrong. Can you and Crystal say the same?

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Is my plumbers advice correct- Faulty Central Heating System

BOB..DOLE

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