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high gloss/lacquered mdf

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primate

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:33 pm Reply with quote

Hi,

I want to construct a floor to ceiling bathroom cupboard using similar material to the cupboards in my kitchen. This is a white high gloss or lacquered mdf. Similar to this, http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=184686&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fstyleStyle%3e%7bgloss_white_slab%7d&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=lister&ts=1141493604550

I can get panels from B&Q or MFI but these are just fixed sizes relating to the kitchens and not long enough for what I need.

Does anyone know where I can get sheets of this kind of material from?
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Jasonb

from United Kingdom

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Surrey,
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:54 pm Reply with quote

I is a sprayed finish that is applied to the boards once they are cut and the edges sanded so not available in sheet form. There are companies that will spray your bare MDF, hopefully Scrit will answer later as he is more knowledgable about the various options than me.

Cheaper doors have a vinyl that is shrunk around the door so you could not use this method.

Jason
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:57 pm Reply with quote

There are a number of firms offering high-gloss vinyl-wrapped doors, but as Jason says they are only available in a limited range of sizes - generally kitchen door sizes. You need to be wary of who you buy vinyl-wrapped high gloss doors from. Many manufacturers still haven't got the process of making them right, so defects such as "orange peel" (inconsistent application of glue before pressing) show up - this is present in every Ikea high gloss door I've ever seen. Would you like to indicate the sizes you need? I might be able to point you in the right direction as my company does supply two ranges of good quality high-gloss vinyl wrapped doors in a variety of colours and sizes.

Apart from high gloss vinyl-wrapped doors there are a number of alternatives - you can get MR-MDF sprayed with a high-gloss acrylic lacquer. This takes some spraying skill and is normally something like a 7 to 10 coat process: 2 coats MDF sealer, 1 to 2 coats high-build undercoat, 2 coats colour coat (matt) then 2 to 4 coats of clear high gloss lacquer. You need quality spray gear to achieve this plus a body polisher. So not for the inexperienced sprayer. Expect to pay 10 to 14 per litre + VAT for the finish coats and a coating of circa 10 square metres/litre in real terms. I also have a supplier of German lacquered doors of this type.

Another alternative is to use solid acrylic plastic (Perspex, Plexiglass, etc) doors. Acrylic polishes to a high gloss, but is awkward to machine without leaving edge marks and is relativly expensive. Pre-made doors to size are available from a company called Parapan in Leeds. There is also a good section on acrylic machining and polishing the ultimate handyman site (providing that doesn't get modded out)

A (lower cost) alternative might be to consider a high-gloss MFC (melamine faced chipboard). The only company I know of which supplies a range of colours in this type of material is Polyrey, although several other companies do a plain white in high gloss. This type of door will require just cutting to size (a scoring panel saw is essential), edge banding and drilling for hinges. My company can also supply this type of door.

Post the sizes of door you require and I'll try to assist you, or alternatively contact me at scrit@joynersbench.co.uk if you have difficulties following up any of the above. Sorry there are so many obtuse references to "trade-only" suppliers, but there are very few companies doing good quality doors of this type and selling direct. I did MILs kittchen with high gloss vinyl wrapped doors over a year back and she's still getting compliments on the doors - simply because they're white, high gloss and have "different" handles.

Scrit
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primate

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:42 pm Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks for your advice.

I've never seen a high-gloss MFC, can you post a link to give an example?

The cupboard will fit into into a corner and enclose a boiler. It will comprise of two front facing doors, one above the other and a side panel.

The dimensions are flexible, but what I really want, and what is causing the issue is a single side panel that will run floor to celing. Floor to ceilng is 245cm and to cover the boiler would be a minimum of about 40cm deep. I also wanted to make some bath panels out of the same material, the bath is 168cm long x 51cm high.

The doors weren't really the problem, I was just planning to use two 95.6cm x 60cm kitchen doors. However a narrower door would be better if this is possible?

I hope this makes sense? Let me know if you need me to clarify anything.
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:47 pm Reply with quote

primate wrote:
I've never seen a high-gloss MFC, can you post a link to give an example?

That's the difficulty with computers, the inability to adequately show certain textures, etc. You'll need to find a local sheet materials supplier to get a swatch of whichever material they stock (Polyrey is just one option in white). Which part of the UK are you in? (suppliers tend not to be national)

primate wrote:
The dimensions are flexible, but what I really want, and what is causing the issue is a single side panel that will run floor to celing. Floor to ceiling is 2450mm and to cover the boiler would be a minimum of about 400mm wide.

That's a bit more of a problem. The standard sheet size on this stuff is about 2.6 metres x 2.0 metres (give or take), but I'd be wary about making a single door from any wood-based material of that size but only 400mm width for use in a bathroom because of the risk of such a long, narrow piece warping in a damp environment. If you go this route you'd certainly need to seal the edges of the MFC before applying the edge banding and I'd suggest a thick edgebanding such as 2mm ABS or 3mm acrylic which will need profiling after application. About the tallest narrow high gloss vinyl-wrapped doors I have information on (and which are ex-stock) are approximately 1800 high x 450 wide, would something like that do if an extra top filler panel could be provided? 1800 is really about your max on such a narrow door. I'd still be concerned about warping and would recommend 3 smaller panels as a more stable solution in foil-wrapped

primate wrote:
I also wanted to make some bath panels out of the same material, the bath is 1680mm long x 510mm high.

I'd categorically state that MFC or MF-MDF are both unsuitable materials for use on a bath side panel - so scratch them if you are going to use the same material for both pieces. That really leaves you with either a foil-wrapped MR-MDF side panel (to match the doors), the high-gloss sprayed MR-MDF (moisture-resistant MDF) route with at least 2 to 3 coats of a waterproof acrylic sealant or better still solid acrylic.

Personally I'd go solid acrylic if cost is secondary and a speedy result is required, I'd opt for sprayed if you could do that yourself (still expensive in labour time but you can add rounded edges, etc which cannot be done in acrylic) or if cost is more of an issue I'd go high-gloss vinyl-wrapped.

The question is really how much of this can you do yourself? Most of the processes above are outside of the range of the average joiner, let alone an amateur woodworker, although the skills can be learned.

Scrit
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hermes

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 1784
Location: Derbyshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:46 am Reply with quote

Scrit wrote:
- you can get MR-MDF sprayed with a high-gloss acrylic lacquer.


Acrylic is not what I would use for this, acid-catalysed laquer, 2 x basecoat, 2 x gloss topcoat will give as good a finish as you could ask for. We sometimes make panels like this.
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:18 pm Reply with quote

Downside to 2K acid cat. is that many of them are toxic during the initial spray period. Not nice! Also never seen a PU or 2K that could mac=tch acrylic for level of gloss.

Scrit
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hermes

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 1784
Location: Derbyshire,
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:13 pm Reply with quote

Scrit wrote:
Downside to 2K acid cat. is that many of them are toxic during the initial spray period. Not nice! Also never seen a PU or 2K that could mac=tch acrylic for level of gloss.

Scrit


Acrylic is also toxic during use. I think the easiest way to get 'wet-look' finish is actually 2-pack PU but due to isocyanate content you need air-fed masks for spraying. Acrylic can indeed achieve higher gloss level than acid cat but requires burnishing for the wet-look which is expensive. 90% sheen acid cat is acceptable for most gloss finishes.
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:28 pm Reply with quote

hermes wrote:
Acrylic is also toxic during use. I think the easiest way to get 'wet-look' finish is actually 2-pack PU but due to isocyanate content you need air-fed masks for spraying. Acrylic can indeed achieve higher gloss level than acid cat but requires burnishing for the wet-look which is expensive. 90% sheen acid cat is acceptable for most gloss finishes.

Are you sure about the toxicity during use (of acrylics)? The COSHH sheets I have on the acrylics I use show them to be markedly better than 2K PUs from our two suppliers (Morrells and HMG). As to burnishing, whilst I use a body buffer, I started out with a low-speed air drill equipped with nothing more than a side handle and a foam mop - neither expensive nor high tech. The trick is to have a random orbit sander and sand the undercoats to perfection before starting on the colours or clear lacquer coats.

Scrit
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hermes

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 1784
Location: Derbyshire,
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:57 pm Reply with quote

Scrit wrote:

Are you sure about the toxicity during use (of acrylics)? The COSHH sheets I have on the acrylics I use show them to be markedly better than 2K PUs from our two suppliers (Morrells and HMG). As to burnishing, whilst I use a body buffer, I started out with a low-speed air drill equipped with nothing more than a side handle and a foam mop - neither expensive nor high tech. The trick is to have a random orbit sander and sand the undercoats to perfection before starting on the colours or clear lacquer coats.

Scrit


Acrylics are not as bad as 2-pack PU, I don't know what is; but they are still toxic as they are solvent-based.

I didn't mean that the tools are expensive, I meant that the whole process of achieving high-gloss with acrylic is expensive as it's much more labour-intensive than using AC.
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Scrit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 1094
Location: Lancashire,
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:38 pm Reply with quote

hermes wrote:
Acrylics are not as bad as 2-pack PU, I don't know what is; but they are still toxic as they are solvent-based.

I didn't mean that the tools are expensive, I meant that the whole process of achieving high-gloss with acrylic is expensive as it's much more labour-intensive than using AC.

The process is certainly expensive in terms of time, but it's still a lot quicker than the old-fashioned piano lacquer work I did years back. It's not beyond the raech of a keen DIYer, but a vinyl wrap or acrylic is probably a better DIY option. I started to use a water-bourne acrylic which is certified EN.71 pt2 and 3 (i.e. "toy safe"), the only problem is that to get anything approaching a high gloss takes care in spraying and a lot of burnishing out with the mop.

Scrit
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Chrisweclipse

from United Kingdom

Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Lancashire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:32 pm Reply with quote

Hi just come to this from a link in google, i know this is a bit old but reading the above our company can make just about anything you like with MDF doors or PVC edged doors, fully made to measure service in hundreds of colours. We basically manufacture kitchens and bedrooms but we can make anything really.
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clareob

from United Kingdom

Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:30 pm Reply with quote

I too have just reached this topic via Google and noticed your note about your company being able to make anything, Chrisweclipse. I'm also looking to source white lacquered MDF (or other composite board) for some wardrobe doors (sliding) and have been unable to find a source. These are to match existing furniture but the doors have to be made. Is this something you can help with / advise on?
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wilsonr

from United Kingdom

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 1
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:39 pm Reply with quote

Hi there,

I know this is an old post but I too found it on google.

Jasonb mentioned that there are companies that will spray bare MDF for you.

Does anyone have any company names?

I am based in North West England.

Regards

Rod
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freddymercurystwin

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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Location: Devon,
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:02 pm Reply with quote

I'd hazzard a guess he was from here: http://www.eclipsedisplays.co.uk/index.htm
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