Am I allow to do this?

masona · 15 Apr 2006

Potterton Kingfisher Rs60

Am I allow to take the boiler heater exchanger out and give it a good clean inside as I don't have to touch the gas side as it's not connect it to the casing? If not, then Plan B whatever that is

I have put in sentinel x400 but the water came out clean after 4 wks, then I have put in Fernox DS-40 for the last 7 days which I have drained down today and came out dirty black/brown water but it's still pumping over to the F&E tank after 10 mins. It's okay when the boiler stat is on minimum temperature as it doesn't pump over as this is my temporary plan at the moment. My theory is the boiler casing is boiling because of less water inside the casing therefore it's start boiling turning it to steam to the F&E tank.

I'm now thinking I have a restricted flow in the boiler exchanger hence why I want to have a look the internal casing it if that I'm allow to do it

I've still got the manual and it's quite simple to do. Having said this, the Fernox DS-40 does say on the instruction "Repeat doses of DS-40 may be applied where necessary".

I appreciate anyone helping on here but must be corgi registered for me to accept the answer correctly, thanks.

PS, I have renew some pipe work where I can including the feed T-Piece.

kevplumb · 15 Apr 2006

masona said:
Am I allow to take the boiler heater exchanger out and give it a good clean inside

welllll not really as you are messing with the flue system

BUT its your own so the rules dont apply

masona · 15 Apr 2006

kevplumb said:
masona said:

Am I allow to take the boiler heater exchanger out and give it a good clean inside

Click to expand...

welllll not really as you are messing with the flue system

BUT its your own so the rules dont apply

Hmmm, so I won't get arrested by erm er BOB DOLE then

corgiman · 15 Apr 2006

you also have to move the burner I think masona so I would advise you not to do this

masona · 15 Apr 2006

Thanks, that's okay, don't have to move the burner, the heat exchanger just resting on the top.

What am' I lightly to find? If I clean it up will it be good as new or do they go pitted after a while, am'I wasting my time but having said that I got nothing to lose!

I won't touch if I have to move the burner or any gas work.

corgiman · 15 Apr 2006

well its in the combustion chamber and you should not go in there at all as a NRGI

dont do it

that said, boolx to descaling it if your taking it out why not put a new one in Hate descaling heat exchangers I do

I edit this 20:15

Softus · 15 Apr 2006

You don't have to be CORGI registered to do this work, if the boiler is yours, in your own home and it's not rented out, but the law says that have to be competent.

This is the traditional start to an old argument, based on the fact that "competent" is not poorly-defined, and determined only by a court ruling. I would suggest that a court is a bad place to be testing your competence, so you may wish to think carefully about what you're undertaking.

masona · 15 Apr 2006

corgiman said:
well its in the combustion chamber and you should not go in there at all as a NRGI

dont do it

that said, boolx to descaling it if your taking it out why not put a new one in Hate descaling heat exchangers I do

I edit this 20:15

Do you mean a new heat exchanger?

If so, sadly they are discontinue now,

I don't have much choice unless I take a chance with another doses of Fernox DS-40

Others parts are available for this model but sadly not the heat exchanger. Would've cost over £600 from Potterton.

masona · 15 Apr 2006

Softus said:
You don't have to be CORGI registered to do this work, if the boiler is yours, in your own home and it's not rented out, but the law says that have to be competent.

This is the traditional start to an old argument, based on the fact that "competent" is not poorly-defined, and determined only by a court ruling. I would suggest that a court is a bad place to be testing your competence, so you may wish to think carefully about what you're undertaking.

Thanks, but at the end of the day I shouldn't really touch it, what I might do now is to disconnect the the inlet and outlet 22mm pipe and try and descale inside the boiler casing instead.

What I really need to know is does the cast iron internal get damaged or pitted or will it be in good condition after I've descaled it

masona · 23 Apr 2006

Just an update to pass on my experience,

I have put in another doses of Fernox DS-40 as the Fernox helpline mention it may need another doses depending how bad the scaled pipe is. The internal 22mm copper pipe is 20mm which was reduced to 17-18mm being scaled up mostly around the pump area back to where the feed pipe entered to the circuit, this pipe work I have renewed. I have decided to changed the Potterton kingfisher boiler stat again and see what happen & it's now not pumping over therefore the boiler is now not boiling because the stat is shutting the boiler down correctly

This is the third new boiler stat I have put in over a month

Lesson learnt here that new parts can be faulty again

I don't know if I'm unlucky but is this normal for you plumbers of replacing new parts again

Thanks lads for your advice

DP · 23 Apr 2006

I have only read the last post so what I say may not be entirely true.

Pump over will only take place if plumbing is incorrect. A correctly plumbed system will only discharge from the vent pipe if boiler overheats.

In a fair number of installations, a gravity HW system gets converted to fully pumped resulting in discharge into the header tank when pump runs.

oilman · 23 Apr 2006

If we assume the scaling is calcium deposits, then I would disconnect the boiler pipes, rig up a central heating pump (as they're easy to get hold of, and cheap if it's an old one) to circulate the water and pump citric acid through it. This wont attack the metal and so wont make the pitting worse (much).

Agile · 23 Apr 2006

Er... He has already used Fernox DS40 which is mostly citric acid!

Its very likely to be limescale left in the boiler HE. You can try to remove this by closing all the rad valves, you dont want this in them! Add Fernox DS3 which is sulphamic acid and is the appropriate chemical to dissolve limescale.

Use about 1/3 can of DS3 and run the system at about 60°C on hot water demand and slowly increase the temperature over an hour or two. Leave in and working for at least 2-3 hours and then drain and refill and see how it seems. If its better then repeat with another 1/3 can. That will probably be enough but if the drained off water is still very cloudy then repeat with the last 1/3.

That will probably solve the problem if you have already used citric acid and successfully dissolved all the metalic oxides.

I dont expect there was any thing wrong with the thermostats you replaced. Possibly you should have used thermal transfer paste in the pockets though.

Tony Glazier

masona · 23 Apr 2006

Agile said:
Er... He has already used Fernox DS40 which is mostly citric acid!

Its very likely to be limescale left in the boiler HE. You can try to remove this by closing all the rad valves, you dont want this in them! Add Fernox DS3 which is sulphamic acid and is the appropriate chemical to dissolve limescale.

Thanks for the feedback,

Do I add the Fernox DS3 in on top of the fernox DS-40? or wait until the Fernox DS-40 7 days period, flush out with the DS-40 Neutraliser sachet provided then put in the Fernox DS3?

I did see the Fernox DS3 on their website but got confused with all their products

I dont expect there was any thing wrong with the thermostats you replaced. Possibly you should have used thermal transfer paste in the pockets though.

Not sure because as soon I've replaced the boiler stat again, the pumping over stopped straight away having said this, I did this time renew the short piece of wirings with a new connector to the stat as the cable was very hard and almost brittles, whether that may have done it being the poor connector(?) or the replacing another stat, I don't know now.

Agile · 23 Apr 2006

Its better to drain out the system or otherwise flush it out but dont bother about the neutraliser yet.

Keep it until you are satisfied with the result and then use it before a final flush and the addition of X100 inhibitor.

Tony

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Am I allow to do this?

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