Landlords gas safety certificate

geoff@cetltd · 24 Apr 2006

Who polices Landlords gas safety certificates for rented properties, the HSE ?

Who do you report a dangerous installation in a rented property with no GSC to ?

ChrisR · 24 Apr 2006

Nobody. But it IS the HSE's pigeon. It would be nice to think that as we nearly have to "Notify" the installation of a bog roll holder, Landlords Gas Safety Records (ahem, they aren't Certificates) would be covered. Far too sensible.
SOme local councils will write a letter to the landlord, I'm told.
It's part of the GSIUR.

Gasguru · 24 Apr 2006

No one polices LGSR's, they are only checked if there is an injury or death hence not many rented properties have them.

Some estate agents will insist on seeing them if the property is managed (although they are obliged to by law they after all estate agents and hence don't worry too much).

Get the tenants to contact the agent or landlord and ask for gas safey record to be carried out. If no luck contact trading standards.

HSE are too busy at Buncefield and they are only interested if a tenant dies or is seriously injured.

Corgi aren't that interested because they know the HSE aren't interested either!

geoff@cetltd · 24 Apr 2006

Thanks,

so all pretty toothless then, short of injury or death

Agile · 25 Apr 2006

The Environmental Health department of the Council will investigate complaints of no LSC.

They also have the power to demand electrical and gas inspections if they have any suspicions or just want to hassle the landlord.

Estate Agents are required to get LSCs if they are a member of ARLA. Most will insist of getting them if they are managing the property. Councils and HAs will also insist on LSCs and electrical inspections as well although they are not required by law. Proper Estate Agents are usually properly qualified as RICS etc.

The ones who usually dont bother are the plain "Letting Agencies" which abound in London and there is even one just off Market Street in Watford by the launderette. They are not qualified and not even regulated by anyone.

Tony

red40 · 25 Apr 2006

They are now a condition for mandatory HMO licensing, without a LGSR a landlord will be unable to get a license and they continue to operate a HMO without one (license that is) the LA can take over control of the property plus the chance of a hefty fine of upto £20,000.

Ed Sirett · 25 Apr 2006

The HMO only applies to six or more 'rooms' within a building (but not a purpose built block of flats) the bulk of rented accom both private and social is not like that.

I would have thought that CAB would give advise to a tenant who has a scumbag landlord who sees gas safety as optional.
I would have thought that Trading Standards or some other council office would take up the case.
It's a pity if we have to wait unitl there is an incident before someone acts.

I suppose it's a bit like driving without an MOT - no problem until there is an accident...

red40 · 25 Apr 2006

Mandatory Hmo licensing applies to a property that is three storeys in height, has 5 or more occupants in two or more households and share an amenity (i.e bedsit and shared houses). There is also an option within the new Housing Act 2004 were a local authority can apply for to the secretary of state to allow additional licensing for any other type of HMO and there is also selective licensing that will apply to a designated area.

So where the six rooms comes from Ed I dont know but it isn't correct

ChrisR · 25 Apr 2006

HMO ??

geoff@cetltd · 25 Apr 2006

Houses with multiple occupation ?

Agile · 25 Apr 2006

NEITHER of them are correct!

I have a house with only ONE occupant and that is classed as HMO.

The classification is under a new law which came in I think last April but many LAs are only enforcing it from April this year.

Its NOTHING to do with the number of rooms, stories or even people. Its effectively based on whether a single person or joint people being responsible for the whole rent. If two people each pay half individually then its a HMO.

Its not that simple as the LA can unilaterally decide that factors of the occupation can make it HMO like two married couples living in a two bed flat.

Its virtually impossible to argue against it and the main feature is that the landlord is legally responsible for the payment of the CT.

Tony

red40 · 26 Apr 2006

I am quite correct Tony on HMO licensing, without going off a tangent on HMO and licensing, in response to the OP question LA have to police certain types of properties with regards to LGSR.

I can see where you are getting confused, the definition of a HMO is now split in 'tests' which are contained within the new Act ONLY properties that are classed by some of those tests will require a HMO license, that doesn't mean if you dont need a license it isn't a HMO

I have a house with only ONE occupant and that is classed as HMO

I would be interested to see which 'test' under the Housing Act the property you describe comes under.

Its NOTHING to do with the number of rooms, stories or even people

Again for the purpose of HMO licensing this is incorrect it has everything to do with storeys, households and people numbers and sharing of amenities.

There are other types of HMO's which the above might not be relevant i.e self contained flat, low risk HMO who share some amenities, etc, etc.

Its virtually impossible to argue against it

Now that is correct, but until it has either been put before the Rental Property Tribunal (RPT) or a court of law it would be impossible to say different, however the new Act has been specifically written to 'try' and cover all loopholes when it comes to privately rented accommodation.

If two people each pay half individually then its a HMO

again that is correct, if they are unrelated by definition of the Act it would be classed as a HMO.

Its not that simple as the LA can unilaterally decide that factors of the occupation can make it HMO like two married couples living in a two bed flat.

that is correct it would fall within 'additional HMO licensing'.

red40 · 26 Apr 2006

red40 said:
I am quite correct Tony on HMO licensing, without going off a tangent on HMO and licensing, in response to the OP question LA have to police certain types of properties with regards to LGSR.

I can see where you are getting confused, the definition of a HMO is now split in 'tests' which are contained within the new Act ONLY properties that are classed by some of those tests will require a HMO license, that doesn't mean if you dont need a license it isn't a HMO

I have a house with only ONE occupant and that is classed as HMO

Click to expand...

I would be interested to see which 'test' under the Housing Act the property you describe comes under.

Its NOTHING to do with the number of rooms, stories or even people

Click to expand...

Again for the purpose of HMO licensing this is incorrect it has everything to do with storeys, households and people numbers and sharing of amenities.

There are other types of HMO's which the above might not be relevant i.e self contained flat, low risk HMO who share some amenities, etc, etc.

Its virtually impossible to argue against it

Click to expand...

Now that is correct, but until it has either been put before the Rental Property Tribunal (RPT) or a court of law it would be impossible to say different, however the new Act has been specifically written to 'try' and cover all loopholes when it comes to privately rented accommodation.

If two people each pay half individually then its a HMO

Click to expand...

again that is correct, if they are unrelated by definition of the Act it would be classed as a HMO.

Its not that simple as the LA can unilaterally decide that factors of the occupation can make it HMO like two married couples living in a two bed flat.

Click to expand...

that is correct it would fall within 'additional HMO licensing'.

Its all to do with John 'two jags, two shags' Prescot

Agile · 26 Apr 2006

You seem to have agreed with everything I have said.

My own problem so far is only related to the Council tax. They are classing it as a HMO and billing the landlord instead of the ( one ) tenant. So far without giving the 25% discount for a single occupant.

It is possible that I dont actually need a License for HMO. I have yet to check that and have not been asked for one. As its three stories I probably do if I cannot get the tenant to sign a new agreement giving her exclusive possession of the whole property. I have a feeling that otherwise I might have to provide a professional fire alarm system and fire check doors at each floor. As its r.c. construction thats a bit over the top!

I have two clients who are landlords with HMO properties. One has unsuccessfully tried to argue his way out of the Council tax on three of his properties. The other is accepting it and trying to comply with all their requirements. I think that she has been to some sort of landlords seminar and I will find out more when I meet her soon.

Tony

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Landlords gas safety certificate

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