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Siting of boiler flue

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pf_mills

from Thailand

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:14 pm Reply with quote

I have asked this on another forum..sorry but I need a quick answer.

So I am putting in my own CH system and my CORGI installer will do the bits he has to do and commission. Its Sunday and I cant get hold of him.
I have the boiler template on the wall. Boiler came yesterday. Its going between a window and a door in the kitchen.. I now realise that I havenít quite got the 300mm from the edge of the flue horizontally to either the window or door frame, only about 285mm. Although almost 300mm to the actual bit that opens

If I understand the regs correctly, I see the only way out is to fit the boiler higher up the wall so that the bottom of the flue is horizontally above both the top of the window and the top of the door. Then the 300mm doesnít count? Do I understand correctly. Or do I have to have 300mm from any part of the flue to an opening. The higher up the wall that I put the boiler the more problem I have with running the flow and return pipes. Its just the way joists etc run.

Could somebody please give me a yes or no as I want to run the flow and return pipes ASAP.

Thanks
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kier

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:58 pm Reply with quote

did the boiler come with a book ?

called manufacturers instructions.
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htgeng

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:59 pm Reply with quote

pf_mills wrote:

So I am putting in my own CH system and my CORGI installer will do the bits he has to do and commission. Its Sunday and I cant get hold of him.

Thanks


AFAIK, only the corgi guy is legally able to install the boiler/flue. You will have to wait and let him do that part of the job.
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Agile

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:30 pm Reply with quote

The outside of the flue should be at least 300 mm from the edge of any brick opening.

There are also other restrictions on the distance from your boundary ( 2.5m ) and that where ever it is it must not cause any nuisence.

I do hope its a condensing boiler!

Surely the CORGI engineer, who I have told you elsewhere must hang the boiler and fit the flue, should have discussed the boiler location with you in order to meet the many regulations.

Tony
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doitall

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:30 pm Reply with quote

oh Dear 4hrs ago this was urgent icon_rolleyes.gif wonder what boiler it is.

Hands up all those that think the RGI is fictitious icon_eek.gif
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pf_mills

from Thailand

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:24 pm Reply with quote

Thanks Tony and all. Tony I've also read Chris and Les reply in Gas news

Its an Alpha CD18 R. Yes I have the Installation instructions and have read them. They give 300mm horizontally. They dont say anything about when the flue is above the middle of the openings.

I have put the template higher and can get more than 300mm from any opening. and the nearist part of where the flue will be.

Please note. I am not installing the flue. But I will be cutting the hole. It was urgent, however I am also fitting a bathroom at the same time as my tenant is away for a week. Wanted to get the floor back down before I fall, through the ceiling.

Guess I'll have to wait until my installer decides to answer his mobile!

Tony..yes he did tell me where to fit the boiler..guess he expectd me to hang it higher than I initially intended. I know I cant fit the back plate or the flue, or any gas. I just want to drill the hole and run the flow and return pipes
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Paul Barker

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:36 pm Reply with quote

You have to draw a square round the openable window and the door 300mm to side and 300mm above, shade in the area, your flue shouldn't be in the shaded area.

Don't have to hike boiler up on wall, just buy a vertical kit a 1m extension and an elbow, leave boiler as low on wall as you want it, send the flu up then out.

It may be you can't comply, in which case, particularly as you need a gas safety certificate, you will have to consider a different boiler location.

Nowadays a lot of installations go in loft (though there are stricter rules about this location).

Bedrooms are the worst idea, but if you can't satisfy flue position in kitchen you have to do something.

Whatever you do, don't hang the boiler pipe up to it and hope you get away with it.
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pf_mills

from Thailand

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:39 pm Reply with quote

Thank you Paul for your definitive answer.

As my installer has put a number of these boiler into similar properties, I wandered around the estate and had a look to see where they had been fitted. They are all fitted in the same place. Heís not answering his mobile as Iím told heís on his way back from Monaco with his mates, OK for some!

Anyway I raised the template as high as possible and having looked at the flue kit supplied I see that the flue is a little smaller in dia. than the hole in the template. So it will just lie outside the two 300mm boxes you described (only just). Looks like I could have used a plume management kit if necessary anyway.

For Mr doitall Iíve actually bought three of these boilers for my rental properties, all from PTS through the CEN scheme ( a Kent based scheme) and you canít do that without a CORGI Installer. The other two properties are just a swap (well ones got to go in the loft as I canít get an acceptable pipe run in the house for the condensate. Iím getting set up to retire to the sun after working the last ten years on commissioning, operation and maintenance of gas fired GTs.

Thank you all for your help. .
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doitall

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:46 pm Reply with quote

pf_mills wrote:
For Mr doitall Iíve actually bought three of these boilers for my rental properties, all from PTS through the CEN scheme ( a Kent based scheme) and you canít do that without a CORGI Installer. The other two properties are just a swap (well ones got to go in the loft as I canít get an acceptable pipe run in the house for the condensate. Iím getting set up to retire to the sun after working the last ten years on commissioning, operation and maintenance of gas fired GTs.

Thank you all for your help. .


Good boilers compaired to some.
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Agile

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:42 pm Reply with quote

I will repeat what I said earlier:-

"The outside of the flue should be at least 300 mm from the edge of any brick opening."

I can guess what has happened! You read the MI as meaning the flue must be horizontally 300mm from an opening without understanding the logic behind that instruction. Obviously to me but not necessarily to everyone its to lessen the chance of flue gasses entering openings into the building.

If I were advising anyone on where to fit a flue to meet the regulations I would actually MARK the wall rather than wave my hands vaguely in the direction.

Tony


Last edited by Agile on Mon May 29, 2006 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total
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pf_mills

from Thailand

Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:28 am Reply with quote

Thanks Tony..I love reading your comments on this and other forums, some are even a little caustic, but in all seriousness you give really sound advice, its much appreciated and thank you for all the time that you spend doing this.

Yes I do understand the logic and danger, of fumes coming back into the building having worked all my life on either very large pf or oil fired boilers and for the last 10 years before I retired on gas fired GTs.

I didnít know about the 300mm boxes, however when I marked the wall it became obvious that you can get the edge of the flue 300mm from the opening but still be inside the 300mm boxes that Paul mentioned. If you measure the 45 degree diagional from the corner of the opening to the corner of the box it is about 400mm.

Alphas are good boilers and I will make sure that the system is flushed correctly (having done a few boiler chemical cleans in my life). Also putting in a mag. filter. Dont want any expensive heating engineers bills whilst I'm retired in the sun!

Anyway all is ok now. Off to continue fitting the bathroom. Yes I will run all the earthing leads ready for him to do the bonding.
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AndersonC

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Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:00 am Reply with quote

I am in a similar state of lack of understanding. I intend to position a boiler on a section of wall which is situated between a window and then turns 90 degrees forming an 'internal' corner on the outside of the house.

I can meet the requirements for 300mm from the window, however is there also a minimum distance requirement from the internal corner? Furthermore, on the wall which is at 90 degrees to the one where the boiler flue will exit, there is an extractor fan outlet from the bathroom. Could this be a problem?

One point I also picked up on in this thread is the comment about putting the boiler in a bedroom - I would like to understand why. The most reasonable place I can position the combi is in a spare bedroom which will only be occupied something like 1/2 dozen times a year max (maybe more if I drink too much and the missus boots me in there!)

If the most sensible answer is for me to consult a CORGI engineer then I will without haste, however any understanding I can gain would be beneficial. I will be getting a CORGI guy in to do all the gas, flue etc anyway.

Thanks for your time guys icon_smile.gif
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Paul Barker

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:05 am Reply with quote

Check mi's but regs state 300mm from your corner if it protrudes more than 450mm, i.e. is for a back addition.

Building regs don't specify distance from extractor on the adjacent wall, check with manufacturers technical and make a note of what they said and who said it, date and time.

Remember MI's overrule building regs corgi uncle tom cobbly and all, so always refer to manufacturer first.

Most boilers cycle once every 24 hours to prevent the pump sticking, this wakes people up. If that doesn't wake them the heating coming on or you having a shower before going to work will.

No other reason why bedroom is not ideal, except it reflects in the value of your house, estate agents don't find it helpful when trying to sell your property.
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Agile

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:48 am Reply with quote

I dont think that there is any requirement for "300mm boxes". I think that was only an easy way to get the idea across. I have always assumed 300 mm from the opening in any direction i.e. a radius of 300 mm from the top corner of a doorway.

Many, if not most manufacturers may want more than 300 mm from an internal corner. In any case it would be much better to have at least 600 mm regardless. A condensing boiler flue can cause condensation on the adjoining wall which is never a good thing!

Tony
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ChrisR

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:34 am Reply with quote

Anderson and pf_mills both:
Be careful about taking opinions from a web forum, even from those whose manner might indicate that theirs is particularly relevant. Opinions are worth what they cost.

The fact is simply that the Manufacturers Instructions are key, as was stated. Some say 25mm from an internal corner OR an external corner! The stipulations laid down there are minima, it's up to the installer to decide on a specific location.
Condensation is something which may or may not be a problem - there are many ways to deal with it.
The Corgi who signs off the installation is the only one whose opinion counts.

Agile wrote:
In any case it would be much better to have at least 600 mm regardless.
Sorry but that's clearly not true Tony.
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