Am i being fussy bstard?

festive said:
Sorry Chris, its been hard running up n down the stairs takin pics and keeping up!! Ive seen youve said this already, just clarifying as my plumbing knowledge is of DIY level which as u may appreciate is way out of my league here.

Im double checking as some people have said no worries about SS heat exchangers and then a no no due to steel rads!

The domestic water is ok because of the ss heat exchange, the water for the heating is a seperate issue (not the same water) because of the steel radiators
 
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festive said:
i thin DIA asked about GAS, plumber mentioned he was running system in 32(?)mm as he didn't want a pressure drop with gas hob and boiler kicks in.

No he's run it in 22mm which is why I asked about the length to the meter, and the number of bends.
 
No he's run it in 22mm which is why I asked about the length to the meter, and the number of bends

Hmmm well the meter is at the front corner of house, ill check in morning, i know the elbow out of the meter is bigger than 22mm sticks out of my 'concealed ground box' like a sore knob :( and runs into house. Not sure where it changes to 22mm then.
Under bedroom which is 3.9 metres. left into hall for 2 metres right into kitchen and maybe 4metres to boiler.
 
"Put it anywhere near the plants and they're DEAD. salt is the best plant killer on the market, and that includes the lawn "

What a load of crap. Just goes to show what you know about softened water. Check your facts first. If it's going to kill the grass just think what it's going to do to you when you drink it. You need salt for the softener to work but it certainly doesn't get into the water unless there's something seriously wrong with it. Can't be bothered to give you a scientific explanation of how a softener works, but suggest you do a bit a Googling before making comments like this. Only problem with using softened water to water the plants is that it's a waste of money.
 
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Frazz said:
"Put it anywhere near the plants and they're DEAD. salt is the best plant killer on the market, and that includes the lawn "

What a load of rubbish. Just goes to show what you know about softened water. Check your facts first. If it's going to kill the grass just think what it's going to do to you when you drink it. You need salt for the softener to work but it certainly doesn't get into the water unless there's something seriously wrong with it. Can't be bothered to give you a scientific explanation of how a softener works, but suggest you do a bit a Googling before making comments like this. Only problem with using softened water to water the plants is that it's a waste of money.

Thats why the Doctors and the regs say, at least the kitchen tap should be raw water, and they do not advice drinking softened water.
 
UK drinking water inspectorate
This is a matter of personal choice. A softener will improve the efficiency and increase the life of appliances using hot water. It will make lathering easier and reduce tide marks on sanitary ware. Some people with skin conditions, such as eczema, have fewer problems if they use soft water for washing. But if you do install a water softener you should make sure that you have a supply of unsoftened water for drinking and cooking.

This is because:

there is evidence of less heart disease in hard water areas than in soft water areas, although not all studies find this link. If something in hard water protects against heart disease, water softeners might remove this protection along with the hardness

many water softeners work by replacing the hardness with sodium. Too much sodium can be a problem for premature babies because their kidneys are not good at filtering it out of the blood, and for people who are on a low sodium (low salt) diet


soft water may release lead from any lead pipes downstream from the softener


a softener which has not been properly looked after may release germs into the water.

If you do decide to have a water softener we advise that you buy it from a reputable supplier, for example, one which is a member of British Water, and have it installed by a qualified plumber who is a member of a recognised Trade Association, such as the Institute of Plumbing. We also advise that you maintain it in accordance with the supplier's instructions.
 
I think the question of whether to connect the kitchen cold tap off the softener is largely down to the quality of the unit.

Top end makes say Kinetico state its not a problem. Their unit sells at around £1000 though and I suspect it thoroughly backwashes and sodium content is very low. Cheaper units (£250) may cause problems.

As for deciding whether stainless steel is compatible who knows. All depends on the grade and alloy of steel used for the heat exchangers.

There are hundreds of stainless steel alloys some will corode very quick in the right circumstances.

I can't see any harm watering the garden except to your wallet ie extra salt tablets to purchase - so keep the hose on raw water.

As for the installation I think he ran out of time and bodged it. I give him 5 out of 10. ;)
 
festive said:
OK any more points

1. The bottom pipe is the raw water and should be connected to the inlet of the water softener.

2. the boiler is connected to the top, softened water, ok for the DHW but not the filler loop which fills the radiators. (there is no filler loop so we assume the internal filler loop is used in boiler?)

3. the green waste pipe has to have an air gap the same as a washing machine.

4. check valve, a drain cock and a stopcock on the outside tap.

5. Condensate drain should be in 32mm (externally only?)

6. Pipes feeding to rad upstairs should be joined to speedfit pipe correctly (but in what way?)

7. Regen pipe should not be copper as brine is v corrosive.

Ok plumber is here and spoke to him.

Answers:

1. OK ill check that.

2. Softened water is far better for (filler loop)CH systems than hardened water. (err is that right?)

3. (didnt ask him about this)

4. Stopcock is there.

5. agreed to reroute internally, was mighty ****ed off though.

6. Pipes ARE fed with pvc coated copper core, no speedfit req'd. (he showed me all looked fine)

7. Regen isn't corrosive it will take 20 years to eat through that pipe.
 
Pretty sure he's wrong about 2, but you'd better check that with boiler manufacturer. Softened water will contain traces of salt (Na-Cl) and salt water is definitely corrosive. Hard water is less corrosive than soft water anyway, irrespective of salt content. But chemical inhibitor in system should stop corrosion in any case (as Agile pointed out before).

You haven't mentioned a whole lot of other points that we flagged up last night. The plumber probably hates you with a vengeance by now so you might as well go the whole hog. :evil:
 
i thought we decided that number 2 was ok for the boiler but not the rads or did i miss something
 
chrishutt said:
Pretty sure he's wrong about 2, but you'd better check that with boiler manufacturer. Softened water will contain traces of salt (Na-Cl) and salt water is definitely corrosive. Hard water is less corrosive than soft water anyway, irrespective of salt content. But chemical inhibitor in system should stop corrosion in any case (as Agile pointed out before).

You haven't mentioned a whole lot of other points that we flagged up last night. The plumber probably hates you with a vengeance by now so you might as well go the whole hog. :evil:

Okay, i phoned Gloworm technical. He said "well if you have a hard water feed available (which i have nearby) it's better to use hard water feed, there are certain Insoluable particles in softened water which may cause harm to your system. If you are to use softened water BS7593 states you should use a particular inhibitor within your system".

So there you have it, officialy it's best NOT to use softened water if possible.

Ok what else have i missed Chris? Hmmm. Ive left him at the house today on his own.
 
1. water softener hose wrong way round.

2. softened water to CH.

3. waste from water softener, (suggest you contact the manufacturer).

4. stopcock or check valve is missing, (service valve is unacceptable)

5. irrespective of Regen and what it does to the copper pipe it's installed wrong, see above advice.

6. You have still avoided the soil pipe issue.

7. the fittings connecting to the 4" pipe are just stuck into a hole in the pipe and not connected with fittings.

8. Gas pipe length, size and number of fittings.

9. can't remember :D
 

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