Lots of dirt blocking main house drain

[Ray of Light]

Hello, folks!

I live in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Two months ago, I moved into an older house. The house has three levels: a finished basement; a first level; and a second level. The house is shaped like a square.

There is no plumbing at all on the second level. The first level has a bathroom (bath; sink; toilet), and a kitchen (sink). The basement has the washer drain as well as a utility sink.

Near one diagonal corner of the house is the main bathroom drain going down below the concrete in the basement. The kitchen sink drain also runs along the side of the wall and empties into this same drain.

The washer drain and utility sink are at the diagonally-opposite corner of the house.

A few days ago, we noticed that water was coming up into the bath if we used too much water. I called a plumber and they spent six hours here, yesterday, trying to clear the blockage.

Since the water was backed up above the clean-out access point in the basement, they removed the toilet bowl, on the first level, and worked from there.

They used a 52-foot rotating snake and were able to extend it completely, yet the water level was did not descend!

They ran a camera into the pipe and as soon as the camera rounded the corner from its vertical descent into the horizontal direction, the camera went dark. We could not see anything. This darkness continued on and off to about the 25-foot mark, then we could see the remainder of the pipe, which was not blocked, but contained lots of gross, white sticky stuff coating the circumference of the pipe.

They tried sending down different blades on the end of the rotating snake wire, but the water level would not descend. Finally, they decided to work from the basement clean-out. So they went to fetch their wet vac and slowly opened the clean-out cap while sucking the liquid. Eventually, they were able to remove the cap and suck up as much liquid as possible.

From here, they again tried the rotating snake wire, followed by sending in the camera. The darkness was still present along many feet of pipe. They tried using a hose with a balloon at the end. They inserted the balloon end in the clean-out access and turned on the water. The balloon expanded to block that end of the pipe while the water attempted to push the blockage away. This did not work. The water started flowing back behind the balloon on numerous attempts.

The plumbers suggested that perhaps the dark stuff is earth and that the pipes may have collapsed. They were *not* able to verify with the camera whether this was true or not. They suggested that the concrete basement floor might need to be ripped up in order to replace the pipes.

The plumbers decided to help me plot the direction of the pipe under the floor. They sent in the camera and used some weird device that looks like a science-fiction gun to detect where it was under the floor. They marked the path with a pen. the path is a straight line, diagonally across the floor toward the washer drain area.

Note that the washing machine drain currently removes the water without backing up. So, it is after the 25-foot mark starting from the bathroom drain. So, we can wash clothes, but cannot shower.

After the toilet bowl was put back, I noticed lots of sand in the toilet water tank. When I turned on the water to the tank and flushed the toilet once, the water was all dark and sandy. The water in my area has always smelled bad.

The preceding are the facts of the story.
What follows is my opinion as a software engineer.

The basement has a wooden floor, but there is poured concrete under the floor. Wasn't the pipe set in the concrete? If so, where is this earth coming? Also, if the pipe is ruptured, then wouldn't the liquid eventually drain away, just like when a plant is watered? I do not believe that the pipe is ruptured, but is perfectly intact and this is why the liquid refuses to budge.

Can anyone offer some professional advice on how to proceed from this point?

Thank you!

-Ray.

[doitall]

The obvious next thing would be to excavate the line from outside the building.

must be better than digging the floor up and finding the problem is not there.

[Ray of Light]

Thank you for the reply.
Is that a job for a plumber or the city???

-Ray.

[doitall]

Ray of Light wrote:

Thank you for the reply. Is that a job for a plumber or the city??? -Ray.

Builder or plumber if its on your property.

You want to be able to access the line as it leaves the building.

[Agile]

Only you know the layout of your yard so far!

Since the camera and snake passed easily down the pipe for 25 feet then I have no reason to think its blocked or severely damaged.

The UK solution would be to dig outdoors at the 25 foot distance and check the pipe from then on to the main City sewer.

In the UK we are responsible for our own pipe until it joins the City sewer EVEN THOUGH it may be under the highway !

Sa va?

Tony Glazier

[Ray of Light]

Agile wrote:

Only you know the layout of your yard so far!

Indeed. Perhaps I was not clear in my description, but the 25-foot mark is inside the basement just before the washing machine and utility sink. Beyond that point, the drainage works fine. For example, I did three loads of laundry today.

I guess that I am wondering whether a pipe would run under the concrete foundation or within it?

Thank you.

-Ray.

[RigidRaider]

Interesting post!

My thoughts:

Your fresh mains water should not be dirty and smelly. The water inside your WC cistern should be of drinkable quality. Do your neighbours suffer the same bad water problem? In the UK the water company has a legal duty to supply clean safe mains water; generally they take this seriously through fear of litigation. Where does your water supply come from? A water treatment plant or an intake in a creek above your house? Does the water company control this? In UK rural areas with this arrangement there are frequent inspections and chlorine is added (usually excessively) to remove the natural brown colour and of course bacteria.

What do you know about the lifestyle of the former owners? were they in the habit of washing muddy equipment in the basement sink? Muddy dogs? I can't fully visualise your layout so I'm assuming this could have dumped the dirt in the soil pipe, down at the low point where muddy water would pool and drop sediment if the fall was inadequate.

In Canada, presumably you have to have the house surveyed before you buy? Did the surveyor check the drainage? Would you have a claim against him in the event that you had to spend serious money on this problem?

[Agile]

It all depends on the floor level compared with the outside ground level.

Are there any inspection covers nearby outside?

It may be easier to dig down outside and clear the drain from the outside rather than breaking through a concrete floor in your basement.

Tony