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Moving light switch to the other side of the door

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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:26 pm Reply with quote

I'm changing my door to open the opposite way and want to change my light switch to suit. Is it ok to put a junction box where the old switch is and run a new flex to the new location? The current flex isn't long enough to reach the new location.

I know I should probably replace the exsisting flex with a new/longer flex to the new location, however this isnt ideal because the flex goes up into the ceiling, which I'm not too fond of the idea of tearing up the ceiling and having it replastered again. I also can't access it from above as there's another flat and it would require their laminate floors being removed and then the floor boards under that.

By moving the switch to the other side via a junction, do I need to have an electrical certificate or is it notifiable to my local building reg? From what I understand according to Part P of the Building Regs, I don't need to notify building regs, but I'm not sure if I need to have an electric cert? I seem to recall reading something previously as of Jan 2005 most electrical work needs to have a certificate?
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industryspark

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:41 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm changing my door to open the opposite way and want to change my light switch to suit.


is this really necessary?

Quote:
Is it ok to put a junction box where the old switch is and run a new flex to the new location?


this would look very ugly if ive got the picture of what your wanting to do right in my head?
a junction box would be allowable, are you on about surface wiring the new light switch.....if so then it will need some protection in the form of conduit/ trunking.

Quote:
flex


do you mean cable, as in twin and earth?

a flex is what is on an appliance, tv, radio, ect.

Quote:
By moving the switch to the other side via a junction, do I need to have an electrical certificate or is it notifiable to my local building reg?


not sure on this one as its not a new circuit as such but not exactly a straight forward replacement either. id say no to be honest but check this out.



i think a minor works certificate would be required here[/quote]
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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:19 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
I'm changing my door to open the opposite way and want to change my light switch to suit.


is this really necessary?


yes, otherwise you won't be able to turn the light on. The door is being changed to open towards the wall rather then to the middle of the room.

Quote:
flex?

I meant the cable for the lights - sorry

Quote:
Quote:
Is it ok to put a junction box where the old switch is and run a new flex to the new location?


this would look very ugly if ive got the picture of what your wanting to do right in my head?


No this won't be surface mounted. I want to put the junction box where the current electrical mounting box is, then run the cable from it to the door, then run it along the door support/frame (under the facing) then from under the facing to the new mounting box on the other side. The junction box will be plastered over. The cables will be shielded and plastered over except where they run along the door support under the facing.
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Steve

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:30 pm Reply with quote

mp01 wrote:
The junction box will be plastered over.


NO IT WILL NOT. icon_evil.gif icon_evil.gif icon_evil.gif icon_evil.gif icon_evil.gif

get that idea out of your head RIGHT NOW.
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mp01

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:40 pm Reply with quote

I'll take your word for it, because you guys know more then I do, but can just ask why? How else can I discretely extend the cable?
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RF Lighting

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:59 pm Reply with quote

You could replace the existing switch with a blanking plate and join the wires behind this. (but not plaster over it)

Or you could replace the switch cable from the ceiling rose, and extend it to the position of the new switch.

As for why, any screwed connection must be accesible for inspection and testing as the screws can work lose over time.
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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:10 pm Reply with quote

hmm... I did think about the blanking plate but didnt like the look.

Can't really replace the cable from the ceiling rose, as I would have to dig the cable out of the plaster along the wall to the ceiling (all the cables have been plastered into the walls unprotected - not by me but the council) then dig through the coving then the coat of plaster on the ceiling then through 2 boards of plaster boards just to get to it. Can't get to from the top as I would have to remove my neighbors laminate floors then their floor boards to get to it. So it's not exactly ideal to replace the cable.

Why can't the junction box be plastered over? Is it because the wire becomes hidden? Or is it because the plaster is wet and if that is the case then could a piece board/wood go over the box before plastering?
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RF Lighting

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:14 pm Reply with quote

mp01 wrote:
Why can't the junction box be plastered over? Is it because the wire becomes hidden? Or is it because the plaster is wet and if that is the case then could a piece board/wood go over the box before plastering?


RF Lighting wrote:
As for why, any screwed connection must be accesible for inspection and testing as the screws can work loose over time.
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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:23 pm Reply with quote

oh... blanking plate it is then.
cheers
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mp01

from United Kingdom

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Posts: 11
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:27 pm Reply with quote

Just thought of something.... the lighting junction box is in the ceiling and it has screw terminals and it's not exactly accessible to check. icon_question.gif
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mp01

from United Kingdom

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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:04 pm Reply with quote

Ok, I answered my own question.....

"Junction boxes must be fixed solidly to a firm, suitable surface and must be accessible. This does not mean they have to be visible and can be fixed in floor or roof voids. Accessible means to a builder or electrician who can easily remove part of the floor or ceiling etc. Junction boxes may not be buried in plaster."

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/junctionbox.htm

Although, my ceiling isnt exactly accessible with a layer of plaster then 2 layers of plaster boards icon_confused.gif
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Pens

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:27 pm Reply with quote

mp01 wrote:
Ok, I answered my own question.....

"Junction boxes must be fixed solidly to a firm, suitable surface and must be accessible.

There are no regulations that say JB's must be fixed or accessible. It is very good practice to do both but under some circumstances by fixing JB's they become inaccessible ie above down lighters in ground floor ceilings

Mr diydoctor has lead you astray icon_wink.gif
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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:32 am Reply with quote

oohh...

So then it's ok to plaster over the junction box and it is legal, it's just not normal practice?

I spent half the night trying to find anything in the regulations regarding this and didn't find any.....
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securespark

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:59 pm Reply with quote

NO!

You cannot plaster over a junction box!

Screwed connections need to remain accessible!

You could, however invest in some good quality crimpers and terminals and join the conductors this way, sleeving them in heatshrink so they are insulated to 240V. THEN you could plaster over them.
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mp01

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:20 pm Reply with quote

I phoned my local council to find out if moving the light switch is notifiable or requires an electrical certificate..... I was told it must be done by a qualified electrician and a certificate is needed. She didn't clarify that it was notifiable. She also stated that changing a single socket to a double or changing a light fixture doesn't require a certificate, however everything else does including moving or extending wires. This seems to contradict what I've read with Part P.

Can't really say how qualified she was in the field as it was the receptionist that I spoke to. I had asked to speak to someone regarding electrical regulations and she wanted to know what the question was and then said that.

But anyways, I think I have found the best solution... I found a 1 Gang Arctitrave Blank Plate which is 31mm in width (it was suggested earlier to use a blank plate)... There is space under the top door facing of 40mm wide from the top of the door wood frame to the top of the facing.

I'll install a new box and the plate there and put the facing over it - keeping it accessible and out of view icon_biggrin.gif

I've never used a blanking plate and I've tried looking for a wiring diagram online but haven't found one yet....

RF Lighting said
Quote:
You could replace the existing switch with a blanking plate and join the wires behind this. (but not plaster over it)


Am I to assume that I wire both cables into the the blank plate? What do you mean by joining the wires behind this?
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