leaking between P-bend and waste pipe.

stokey · 10 Sep 2006

Hi all,
At the back of my wc there is a connection to the waste (horizontal) which is made via a sort of 'gaiter' or plastic 'sleeve'. The leak is between the gaiter and the soil pipe..there is a sort of flange around the end of the gaiter and the leakage is there.

Would I be right in assuming the gaiter is now faulty and needs replacing?

The wc is about 35 years old (avocado!!!) and so will the 110mm fit?
Thanks for any help.
Stokey

Softus · 10 Sep 2006

Probably is just the pan connector seal losing its rubberiness over the years.

You need to measure the spigot on the back of the pan to ensure that you get a new pan connector of the correct size.

If you want to post the diameter here then I (or anyone) can tell you what to get and, if necessary, where to get it.

Bear in mind that you'll probably have to remove the pan in order to replace the connector. If it's close-coupled then that means disconnecting the water supply to the cistern...

stokey · 10 Sep 2006

Softus said:
Probably is just the pan connector seal losing its rubberiness over the years.

You need to measure the spigot on the back of the pan to ensure that you get a new pan connector of the correct size.

If you want to post the diameter here then I (or anyone) can tell you what to get and, if necessary, where to get it.

Bear in mind that you'll probably have to remove the pan in order to replace the connector. If it's close-coupled then that means disconnecting the water supply to the cistern...

Thanks so much for the reply. you are quite right in that I need to get the right size; I bought what I thought might be the right thing from Wickes today, but it does not seem to be the one I need. They said they would refund with the receipt!!
Is the spigot a diameter or circumference or the length of the pipe protruding at the back of the wc and going directly to the soil pipe?
It is definitely not a close-coupled wc. I would call it a 'low-level' cistern and am assuming I will have to remove the pan and turn off the water supply.
Like many if not most folks on here I am an amateur and very grateful for the advice given.Hope you can help.

Softus · 10 Sep 2006

No problem.

If it's low level then yes - you need only remove the pan, not the cistern. Turning off the water supply to the cistern isn't essential, but would prevent an accidental deposit of 2 gallons all over you, the floor and your work.

You need to measure the diameter of the spigot. The spigot is the part of the ceramic pan casting that sticks out of the back and inserts into the pan connector. The pan connector is inserted into the soil pipe branch.

What would also be useful to know is the distance between the end of the spigot and the branch that the pan connector will go into. This might involve some educated guesswork, but that will be good enough.

If you post the two dimensions here then I can tell you which pan connector you need, assuming that it's straight. If the existing connector isn't straight then I suggest posting a photo here so that I can see the amount of offset needed.

stokey · 10 Sep 2006

Thanks Softus...going for a break with the dear lady...Correr and all the rest....I will post tomorrow....I did not know one could post a picture on here...have digi cam and as they say in the old song by Telly Savalas..'a picture paints a thousand words'. Where is the picture facility please??

Thanks again. I'll be back!!

Softus · 10 Sep 2006

stokey said:
Where is the picture facility please?

1. Take photograph; digitise if not already digital.
2. Browse using PC to an image hosting site¹.
3. Upload the image and copy the URL.
4. Paste the URL into a new post on this topic using the [img] and [/img] tags².

¹ An example of an image hosting site is here:
http://imageshack.us/

² If you press the

button on my post then you'll see how I embedded the image of the 'quote' button.

stokey · 11 Sep 2006

[/URL]

I have taken a pic..digicamera..downoaded to pc....taken it to hosting site...but I am not sure if I have copied the correct URL or indeed if I have done it right...
The diameter of the spigot is about 100mm +/- 5 or 10mms...

The total length of the spigot is about 17 cms and about 10cms protrude from the back and go into the soil branch.

Let us see if this post is successful. If the pic is wrong or uses too much memory then I sincerely apologise.
Thankyou again for your assistance.

Softus · 11 Sep 2006

Image is visible, but I didn't realise that the pan connector wasn't straight (which is why a picture is invaluable).

Or is it just the ruler is in the way? If you take another from a vantage point about 6" higher, and without the ruler, it would show the bend and what it's made of.

stokey · 11 Sep 2006

[URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4319/im000632hr7.jpg[/img]

I hope this helps..more than willing to try another angle. Thanks again for help[/url]

Will somebody knock the pics off when I get problem sorted? Do not wish to use up all the memory of the site!!

Softus · 12 Sep 2006

stokey said:
The diameter of the spigot is about 100mm +/- 5 or 10mms...

You have what Multikwik call a "BS 5503/4" pan, with a spigot in the range 97–108mm, and the markings on the existing connector show that it's for 110mm (internal diameter) soil pipe.

So the pan connector you need for this is a Multikwik 2190, which looks like this:

I reason I keep referring to Multikwik is because I use those out of technical preference.

If the pic is wrong or uses too much memory then I sincerely apologise.

The pictures are fine, but they're hard to view because the resolution (1792x1200) is a bit large.

Below, I've posted a reduced resolution edition of your second image. You could, if you wish, change the URL in your post to be the same as in mine, but it would be good if you could leave the images because they're helpful to other people who have the same problem as you.

You might notice that the stored size of the image is about one thirtieth of the image you posted, and therefore arguably negligable to the forum site server(s).

ChrisR · 12 Sep 2006

|'m wondering if the pan connector is fully ON tot the pan spigot. It would be a longer-than-average spigot if it is.

Softus · 12 Sep 2006

ChrisR - hmm, possibly not. But the connector looks to be at 90°, so it could create a leak at the other end if pushed on further.

stokey - a postscript to my previous post, aimed at - if the MK2190 tail is too long, then Multikwik do a "tight knuckle bend" called "MKB21":

It's simpler for a plumber to buy both and see which fits - given the price of the fittings I'm sure you could afford to do that, and if you keep in its bag the one you don't use then most merchants will take it back for a full refund.

stokey · 12 Sep 2006

Firstly, ChrisR, thanks for your help and suggestion. As a matter of fact, the connector does have small amount of sliding movement and really it does not fit tightly over the spigot. This makes me think that the thing has perished over the 35 years.
So, Softus seems to have the solution. But where do I get the Mulitkwik fitting from? Do B and Q stock it or must I get it online??
Any tips for getting the old fitting off? And the new one? Maybe some washing-up liquid will help?

Thanks again for assistance.

Softus · 12 Sep 2006

stokey said:
But where do I get the Mulitkwik fitting from? Do B and Q stock it or must I get it online?

Any plumbers' merchant. I have no idea if BNFNQ sell them - they probably sell something similar, but frankly I'd get a Multikwik every time (where possible).

Any tips for getting the old fitting off?

Twisting and steady pulling. You are removing the pan of course?

And the new one? Maybe some washing-up liquid will help?

NO! Under no circumstances lubricate the pan spigot with anything other than a bit of saliva. The connector needs to go where it wants to go, and then stay there - if you lubricate it then it will succumb to any force that's encourgaging it to slide off.

I would put the pan connector into the soil branch first; make a small pencil mark on the wall at the centre line of the pan spigot (before removing the pan), and line it up with that. Then introduce the pan into the pan connector, by leaning over the pan, holding the connector with both hands, and using your body to lean in to the pan and push it home.

Then make sure that the connector is still aligned in all directions, and screw the pan to the floor.

If the pan needs to move then adjust (or renew) the flush pipe to suit.

stokey · 13 Sep 2006

I think I understand your recommending the particular manufacturer (Multikwik). I got a 'longer version' from 'Plumb Centre' and to be qute honest it looks to be rather flimsy. I took the other one back to Wickes, and in fact they had a compatible fitting which looked infinitely more substantial.(and no more expensive incidentally.)
So I am ready to hit the problem now and will probably have a go tomorrow. These things have to be planned carefully as my wife is severely disabled and needs that particular loo as she is confined downstairs.
One final question if I may, the soil end of the connector where there are plastic/rubber 'rings' (finials???)....presumably I take those off to cut the pipe to size? Or could the whole device be pushed into the soil pipe?..it would probably go in by about 100mm...
There will be a small gap between the outer rim of the connector and the interior rim of the soil pipe...presumably one fills that in with filler of some sort.
Thanks again so much for all help.

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leaking between P-bend and waste pipe.

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