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Matt over silk - is it always a bad idea?


 
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lisa65

from United Kingdom

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Hampshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:00 pm Reply with quote

I'm painting my bedrooms which are a sky blue colour in silk emulsion (sorry I don't know what type but I assume it's some kind of trade paint as we bought the house off a builder)

So far I've painted one room with Dulux Hints Jade White in Rich Matt. It took 2 coats to cover. I was looking online for "thorough" drying/hardening times (ie how long before touching the wall doesn't mark the paint) and found this site.

From what I can gather painting matt over silk is a bad idea generally? I'm about to start the other bedroom and was going to do it the same, in Matt.
Given that it's currently silk would it be better to use that instead?

I've already had the crazing problem after I painted my kitchen matt over silk a couple of years ago, but I'd put that down to using a cheapo paint (I think it was Homebase)

So I have 2 questions really

1) will Dulux Rich Matt craze or in some other way not be very good when applied over a trade silk paint? If so, what should I use instead?
2) How long does it take matt paint to harden completely. It's supposed to be wipe clean and tough, but I've already got a couple of marks on it.

Thanks

Lisa
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gcol

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:17 pm Reply with quote

1. You do get a fine cracking with matt over silk - in my experience it's only very slight though. Should be covered with a second coat.
2. Dunno, but matt ain't as readily wiped clean as silk - you'll generally take some paint off when you rub/wipe it. Matt is easier to touch-up than silk.

Personally I rate Johnstones Ultramatt, but I'm not a profesional "time-served" painter. icon_wink.gif
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confidentincompetent

from United Kingdom

Joined: 31 Jan 2005
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Location: Dorset,
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:37 pm Reply with quote

lisa65 wrote:


1) will Dulux Rich Matt craze or in some other way not be very good when applied over a trade silk paint? If so, what should I use instead?
2) How long does it take matt paint to harden completely. It's supposed to be wipe clean and tough, but I've already got a couple of marks on it.

Thanks

Lisa


If you abrade the silk walls before applying 'Matt' you should have no problems.. I generally use a sanding block with 100g, dont rub too hard, you only need to dull the old surface a little, it's not necessary to rub off the paint film, extend your arm letting block rest on wall and use a half moon action all over the walls. Usually takes 10 min to do a room like this. I then go over walls with a damp sponge to take away any dust. icon_wink.gif

Emulsions take approx 30 days to become fully cured...But I usually put customers pics etc back on next day. As gycol says Matt is easier to touch up than attempting to clean...
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spice

from United Kingdom

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 569
Location: London,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:21 am Reply with quote

'Dulux' do a paint now, forget what its called, (memory going), but it has teflon in it, and apparantly it has a 10 year guarentee, and it does do what it says on the tin, its wipable, and doesnt take the paint off with it either.

I used it some months ago in a clients house in the HSL, they bought the paint themselves, after I had finished, I walked up the stairs with a cup of tea in my hand, tripped on the stairs, and the tea went on the wall. icon_redface.gif

I thought icon_rolleyes.gif now I will probable have to touch it up, but I got a slightly damp cloth, wiped the tea stains off, (there was quite a few), and it didnt leave any evidence on the wall,didnt come off on the cloth either and the wall looked as good as knew. icon_biggrin.gif
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lisa65

from United Kingdom

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Hampshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:55 am Reply with quote

Thanks so much! I've already done one room and DIDN'T sand the walls so fingers crossed it'll be OK, but I'm about to start prepping the second room today, so I'll give the walls a quick sand over before I wash them down.

Thanks again.
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JamesA

from United Kingdom

Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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Location: Cambridgeshire,
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:12 am Reply with quote

lisa65 wrote:
...I've already done one room and DIDN'T sand the walls so fingers crossed it'll be OK...


I would definitely take the advice and do the other rooms thoroughly.
Don't assume its OK just because the first room is ok after a few days.
The cracking didn't occur for weeks at our house. A second coat didn't solve it either...
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simon_t

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Kent,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:42 pm Reply with quote

I would also suggest not going ahead without prepping the surface. I made the mistake of painting with a silk white base coat before I applied a matt top coat. I did rough the surface (having read on post on here) before I painted the top coat but some areas I must have missed as you can see faint cracking in patches. Left the silk paint alone and only used matt on matt now.

well you live and learn....or if you're clever you read here first icon_biggrin.gif
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lisa65

from United Kingdom

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Hampshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:38 am Reply with quote

I've roughed the old paint and will do the new paint today. Here's hoping.....
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b21playa

from United Kingdom

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: Birmingham,
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:31 am Reply with quote

I've got the same issue in a house I've purchased. Luckily its not all the rooms, but I'm sanding the walls before painting over in matt
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DIYHomefit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Surrey,
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:31 pm Reply with quote

My advice would be to sadly remove all the silk paint THEN paint the walls with matte. Another alternative would be to paint over the silk paint with some PVA, then proceed with the matte.

Hope the other room is staying well (the one you mentioned before).
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joe-90

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:28 pm Reply with quote

PVA? You won't get a roller to roll on that stuff.

Get a 1/4 sheet sander and it'll be done in no time.
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krismusic

from United Kingdom

Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
Location: London,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:17 pm Reply with quote

DIYHomefit wrote:
My advice would be to sadly remove all the silk paint THEN paint the walls with matte. Another alternative would be to paint over the silk paint with some PVA, then proceed with the matte.

Hope the other room is staying well (the one you mentioned before).

I was told emphatically by Dulux Technical that emulsion does not adhere properly to PVA.
I would use Zinsser to seal the silk before re painting. The meths based Zinsser BIN would definitely do it but is horrid to use. The Zinsser Bullseye water based would probably be fine.
By all means try just abrading the surface as suggested and it will probably be fine but if you do have problems in the futeure a coat of either of the products I have suggested should sort it out.
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The following user says thank you to krismusic for this useful post:
DIYHomefit (23 Sep 2013)
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DIYHomefit

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Surrey,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:08 pm Reply with quote

Sorry guys, ignore my part about the PVA. After looking at my answer, I can see where I went wrong! icon_redface.gif Took advice from an apparent 'expert' about this, and yep you guessed, made a complete fool out of me. @krismusic - you're right, Zinsser would be better for the walls than PVA.
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