Corgi report on Flueless Gas fire incident

Joined
20 May 2005
Messages
5,343
Reaction score
21
Country
United Kingdom
This is now in the public domain.

http://www.gas-news.co.uk/TB_183.pdf

The installer has been dealt with by the Courts, but what about the appliance manufacturer and the independent testing house (Notified Body)?

Should an appliance have been put on the market with an adjustment to allow the gas rate to be more than doubled from it's design level? Isn't it as bad as marketing cars capable of massively exceeding safe speeds?
 
Sponsored Links
If a CORGI gas installer cannot get it right and kills someone then this should serve as an axample of just how dangerous gas can be and warn people off DIY work.

Tony
 
Tony, how is this example of negligence by a Corgi registered installer going to warn people off DIY?

Surely it would tend to have the opposite effect! Why pay a Corgi registered installer to kill you when you can DIY for much less money?
 
For what its worth,

You get the corgi person in because he will cross the t's dot the i's - or so you expect.

Like you always say Tony - I can't help you if your not qualified !
Some help that was to this poor person.

When the corgi guy tell you its right - you expect it to be RIGHT !
Because that's what he's trained to do, but at the end of the day its only as good as the effort he puts in.

Chris your right - this fuels the argument for the diy'er.

Hopefully though a case like this is uncommon right ?

Stoyer
 
Sponsored Links
Stoyer said:
Chris your right - this fuels the argument for the diy'er.
it fuels it for the competent DIYer. but for many who may just think it looks easy to change a fire it highlights the need for testing the installation after, although it does question who they can trust and brings it back to the use someone reccomended.
 
For anyone not already aware the killing installer whilst registered for central heating was NOT registered for gas fires.

He fitted the fire Ok but failed to do a simple but essential test of measuring the burner pressure.

Only a very few DIyers have the knowledge or equipment to do that test.

The fire had come out of the factory seriously wrongly set and the negligent CORGI who did not check it created an unlikely but in this case dangerous situation.

I still maintain that a CORGI is likely to be safer than a DIYer.

Tony
 
I totally agree with you Tony, but the guy has made a fatal mistake and being trained in the profession be it heating or fires he should know better.

No DIY'ER can justifiy doing this type of work himself, do you know what your doing 100 % -- err --- no - then leave well alone !!

There is no second chance !!
 
Stoyer said:
..................

No DIY'ER can justifiy doing this type of work himself, .................

That's a bit exclusive isn't it? Just because people are qualified doesn't mean they do things properly, and conversly, just because they are not qualified doesn't mean they don't do things properly.

Don't make the mistake of tarring everyone with the same brush.
 
i have a baxi wentworth gas fire it says it has a oxygen depletion sensor didnt this fire have one ? and if so dont they work ? i had my fire fitted by a corgi engineer , but i still went out and bought a carbon monixide alarm and fitted in said room why are they not fitted as standard? smoke alarms are and you can see smoke . surely gas fires are just for look ? thats what mines for the boiler heats the house.
 
an OSD is not affected by CO. i also agree that CO detectors should be mandatory to new installations. possibly NCS for existing or is that OTT.
 
most accidents are caused by human error as in this case but it would seem the manufacturers instructions were also at fault.

One question that will no doubt be asked is “why did the atmosphere sensing device (ASD) not operate and
cut the appliance off sooner?” This is something that CORGI cannot answer at this time but there are several
possible causes that need to be considered.
The first issue to be considered is the room in which the appliance was installed. In this case, the room was
an open-plan living space with a staircase leading to the first floor accommodation. As the products of
combustion were taken away by the heated (convected) air due to the open-plan nature of the space, it is
possible that the products of combustion would not build up in the vicinity of the appliance and therefore
the change in atmosphere may not have been detected by the ASD.
There is also the possibility that because an ASD is designed to function normally when the combustion
quality is good and due to the fact that in this case the combustion at the appliance was so poor to start
with, combined with the rapid rise in CO level in such a short space of time, it is likely that the ASD would
not have failed safe in the short time needed to prevent the incident occurring.
One final point that may have affected the operation of the ASD was the close proximity of the combustion
air vent to the appliance. As the products of combustion are hot and will naturally rise away from the
appliance, the denser cooler combustion air supplied by the air vent would have been delivered at a low
level in the area of the ASD, therefore preventing any vitiated atmosphere from affecting the flame and in
turn preventing the flame from lifting off and moving away from the thermocouple.
CORGI understands that this final point has now been considered by the appliance manufacturer involved in
this incident and has been reflected in the current installation instructions for this appliance which now
recommends that the air vent be located no closer than 500mm to the appliance.
The draft British Standard for the installation of flueless gas fires (BS 5871-4), when published is likely to
recommend that no air vent should be sited closer than one metre to the appliance. However individual
appliance manufacturers may specify different dimensions which again highlight the need to always refer to
the specific manufacturer’s installation instructions.
The above British Standard when published will clearly state that flueless gas fires are intended only as a
secondary heat source and should only be installed where a primary heat source such as a central heating
radiator or night storage heater is present. The reason for this requirement is that condensation may occur
with rapid warming and cooling of the space in which the appliance is installed.
 
An OSD should be regarded like an air bag in a car. It will not prevent an accident but might reduce the effects.

In this particular case it seems the air inlet was very close to the fire. The fire's burner would therefore have received a nice clean air supply and so the OSD did not operate.

In the meantime the hot CO2 and CO rose up and occupied most of the room above waist height just in the right place for breathing.

The air inlet was fitted in accordance with the Manufacturer's Instructions at the time. Since then they have changed the MI to require it to be over 500 mm away. A draft BS is expected to recommend a minimum distance of 1000 mm.

Tony Glazier
 
That's clever, fela kuti, did you write all this yourself, or did you copy and paste it from elsewhere? If so please provide a bibliography, and give credit where it's due.

Remember that checks always should be made on things that are used as references since not all texts represent facts. If it is only your opinion that's another matter, but the incorrect placing of linefeeds give it away just a tad.
 
Since this seems to be to topic of the day, answer me this.

Why did the appliance work for 5 months without mishap, and assumably without any side effects.

What happened on this particular day that caused the unfortunate problem.

And how many more are out there, diy or not just waiting for a few cold nights.
 
That question was partly answered in the published information.

The catalytic element was dealing with twice the volume of gas and was unable to fully oxidise the hydrocarbons and became sooted up.

This further reduced the efficiency of the catalytic element producing yet more CO.

Tony
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top