Question regarding earth when installing two single sockets

milmber

Hi, I have a question regarding earth when installing two single sockets. I have installed the first socket successfully, but for the second I notice that there is only a live and neutral ( i.e. no seperate earth wire ). Can I simply connect the earth to the first socket's earth wire?

Spark123 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:15 pm Post Subject:

I don't follow, there should be an earth at the socket unless it is installed in old conduit or similar?

milmber · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:21 pm Post Subject:

Hi,
Sorry. Best I explain a bit better. There were two seperate faceplates next to each other. One contained a connection for a washing machine (which I turned into a standard single socket). The other faceplate, sharing the same recess, was just a cover with no socket.
Both these faceplates share the same socket recess, with only 5 wires instead of 6 from the mains. I.e.:

live 1
neutral 1
earth 1
live 2
neutral 1

Spark123 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:24 pm Post Subject:

Can you post a picture:
To upload an image;
Go to a hosting site such as imageshack: http://imageshack.us/
Click browse and locate the image. Ensure resize image is ticked and select 640 x 480 (for message boards). Click host it.
After the image has uploaded imageshack displays a list of links to the image. Highlight the text in the line at the bottom of the screen "direct link to image" and copy the text (press CTRL C to copy).
On your post type [img][/img] and insert the text from imageshack inbetween the two (press CTRL V to paste), so it reads something like:
[img]http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4848/dolrwo4.jpg[/img]
When you submit your post the image should now appear.

sparkybird · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:24 pm Post Subject:

Hmm, sounds a bit odd?

Are there two white or grey cables with each of the live/neutral/earth coming out of them? If so, maybe the missing earth has been chopped off short. You might be able to strip back the pvc sheathing to find it...

SB

milmber · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:37 pm Post Subject:

Pics are a bit large, bit you should be able to make out the detail:

http://homepage.mac.com/milmber/files/sockets1.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/milmber/files/sockets2.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/milmber/files/sockets3.jpg

Spark123 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:41 pm Post Subject:

Idea, have they shoved both earth wires into the one sleeve? I can't see a grommet there in the hole either

.
My only concern there is that both of the cables appear to be different sizes, what is the smaller one for?

milmber · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:42 pm Post Subject:

Hi, yes, the second set of neutral and live cables does seem to be thinner than the first.

Spark123 · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:47 pm Post Subject:

Are they connected to anything, given there was only a blank there before? Could it be meant for a fused spur unit? The cables that are supplying the socket look quite a lot bit bigger, what size fuse/mcb is supplying it?

milmber · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:51 pm Post Subject:

Not 100% sure, but I suspect that the cables supplied a boiler ( which has been moved ) or washing machine. To tell you the truth I'm only confident up to the point where I see neutral, live and earth. Anything more is out of my league.
I figure I'm going to have to have a proper electrician look at this.

Thank you for the help and quick replies.

uug197h

this should be a ring main put the other wires in the same connections EG:-live to Live this will complete the circuit

RF Lighting · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:50 pm Post Subject:

WTF?

That is very very very bad advice.

We do not know anywhere near enough about this setup to be making stupid suggestions like that.

If it were a ring then the set of cables which are not connected to anything would already be live, and this still doesent explain the missing earth.

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festa · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:35 pm Post Subject:

Wow ....another messy one

Yep as mentioned by RF above, DONT connect those sets of wires together.
You MUST get a profesional electrician in,as a number of things can be going on here and only proper testing will show the truth.
My opinions are
1) If the socket is on a radial,then at one time there may have been a fused connection unit where the now blank plate is sited ,that fed the thinner wire.
2)You may indeed have the socket connected to a ring circuit but your socket is either a spur or it is supplied by a junction box under the floor boards and as above there was once an FCU where the blank plate is now.
3)The FCU (if there was one there),was supplying EQUIPMENT that was SELV and the `electrician` who wired it up has chopped back the earth in the thinner wire so it wasnt connected by mistake (ive come across this in lighting circuits and its bad practice but not un-common).
4)Worst case is someone has tried turning an old radial circuit into a ring and has completed the ring in a thinner wire than the radial (which will show if you look at the wires going into the top of the fuse/mcb protecting your socket circuit,I.E one thick wire and one smaller one )

securespark · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:57 pm Post Subject:

Whatever it was, it looks like the 2,5 was the feed, and the 1,0 was the outgoing circuit. As already advised, check to see if you can find the origin of the 2,5 and destination of the 1,0.

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