New heating system questions

Hello

I have an old and creaking Mexico floor standing slimline boiler on a primatic dual system. The boiler is in the garage and has a half inch gas supply some 7m from the meter. Hot water is on 28mm copper (gravity) the heating circuit is on 25mm copper pumped.

The rads are a mixture of old and new and the pipes go all over the place, I am dubious about converting to a combi on an old set of pipes with joints I dont know the location of given the pressure situation with such systems. (Is this fair)

I am going to replace the boiler during the summer and was thinking of going for a mexico 15HE floor standing and put in a new hot water tank to create an proper indirect system.

First question can I do the heating plumping my self under the new regs, also is the 0.5 inch gas pipe the correct size for the mexico HE boiler or will this have to be up sized. In which case I may go for the combi option

Ta

I`ve put a couple of these in as direct replacements for the old mexico. Talked to their tech guys, who assured me it was an absolute direct replacement, no uprating of gas supply. If you`re up to the task of changing your primatic system then nothing in the regs says you can`t do that as diy. One of the customers i installed the He for was a component designer for Ideal and insisted on the boiler. No grumblings from him so far, and it`s been in a year.

Strachan said:

I`ve put a couple of these in as direct replacements for the old mexico. Talked to their tech guys, who assured me it was an absolute direct replacement, no uprating of gas supply. If you`re up to the task of changing your primatic system then nothing in the regs says you can`t do that as diy. One of the customers i installed the He for was a component designer for Ideal and insisted on the boiler. No grumblings from him so far, and it`s been in a year.

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Is that a condesning boiler? It has to a condensing boiler except in Scotland which will need one soon anyway. Forget the Mexico it dates from 1970 (the 1970 World Cup in Mexico)

Get rid of the Primatic cyliodner too. Best get a modern system.
How many baths? Showers? etc? Is thee garage attached?

If the rads pop when made a sealed system then they ready to go anyway and need replacing.

Some more info and suggestions can be made for a top line system.

"If you are competent enough, DIY Gas Work is LEGAL. You DO NOT have to be CORGI registered"

Could you (or anyone) kindly explain further ? I have long held the view that the really competent DIYer is inhibited too much by some regulations. After all (and there are typical postings on this DIY forum), that most lethal of devices, the motor car, can have it's braking, steering and safety systems dangerously compromised by anyone with little or no mechanical knowledge, but there are no regulations to say that this work should only be done by a "qualified" mechanic.

Dont take too much notice of that signature line. The catch is "if you are competent" as very few non CORGi people will be competent. There are also some things like self certifying that a non-CORGI cannot do.

Water Systems has some kind of experience with boiler manufacturers but that was a long while ago as he is retired. He still keeps up his tirade against registered people and actively encourages the non registered to do gas work. As that could be legally risky he carefully keeps his identity hidden !!! Would you trust advice from someone anonymous?

Tony Glazier

Heed what Tony has said regarding "competance".
If replacing the cylinder you will also need Building Regs approval as this has been a "controlled service" for over 4 years now, else use a tradesman who can self certify (CORGI reg'd, Institute of Plumbing member - phone Building Control at your local council for a list)

Sorry been out all day. Yes water systems, of course it was a condensing! I`m corgi therefore to comply with building regs it had to be!

in response to some of the questions.

The boiler is in the back of the garage which is part of a larger extension to the side and back (attached to the house which is a bog standard early 50s 3 bed semi) the advantage of replacing the boiler in the garage is its an easy swap and venting and getting rid of the condensate is easy single leaf wall with a drain three feet away.

I can get the boiler mexico 15HE for £650 incl vat through a council energy scheme and a new HW tank for £250 so for a grand I can fix it and get someone to do the small amount gas work for me (i.e) connect it and do the flue and do the certification).

We only have one bath room and the shower is electric which is why a combi could be good as we could bin the airing cupboard and cylinder. ( we are hoping to have a new bathroom suite and as the bathroom is tiny (so this has advantages as its a bit tight to get a new insulated cylinder in and a bath, its that small).

However if I go for a combi I will need to up size the gas to the garage, and its quite a long pipe run from the boiler to the hot taps, all of which would be a pain so the logical thing to do then would be put the boiler in the loft. However then getting rid of the condensate becomes a problem, plus it would end up in a cast iron soil stack, and I have been told the condensate is dead corrosive to these, and the stack passes though an extension to the kitchen.

Also as the current system is old I expect it to be full of crud and I know from a Potterton combi I look after they dont like this. Plus the cheapest combi I have found that seems OK is about £800 plus vat (any views on a good type).

I am happy to do the non gas plumbing myself, and the eleectrics, but I would feel a bit ifi about the gas not because I cant do it but because of what happens if something goes wrong, the finger will get pointed at the competant person etc.

Cheers and thanks for all the help

My advice would be to organise your corgi chap before you do anything, and apart from the gas/flue/vent stuff, get him to advise you about any other matters, and regs, which you may not be aware exist. It would be best if you could get the boxes signed to say a corgi installed it, which he would do as long as he did the bits he decided he needed to - for a fee.

mattyf said:

in response to some of the questions.

The boiler is in the back of the garage which is part of a larger extension to the side and back (attached to the house which is a bog standard early 50s 3 bed semi) the advantage of replacing the boiler in the garage is its an easy swap and venting and getting rid of the condensate is easy single leaf wall with a drain three feet away.

I can get the boiler mexico 15HE for £650 incl vat through a council energy scheme and a new HW tank for £250 so for a grand I can fix it and get someone to do the small amount gas work for me (i.e) connect it and do the flue and do the certification).

We only have one bath room and the shower is electric which is why a combi could be good as we could bin the airing cupboard and cylinder. ( we are hoping to have a new bathroom suite and as the bathroom is tiny (so this has advantages as its a bit tight to get a new insulated cylinder in and a bath, its that small).

However if I go for a combi I will need to up size the gas to the garage, and its quite a long pipe run from the boiler to the hot taps, all of which would be a pain so the logical thing to do then would be put the boiler in the loft. However then getting rid of the condensate becomes a problem,

plus it would end up in a cast iron soil stack, and I have been told the condensate is dead corrosive to these, and the stack passes though an extension to the kitchen.

Also as the current system is old I expect it to be full of crud and I know from a Potterton combi I look after they dont like this. Plus the cheapest combi I have found that seems OK is about £800 plus vat (any views on a good type).

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Avoid the Mexico as it is old hat. You need to get rid of the Primatic and other works on rads etc as well, so get a decent modern boiler.

The Vokera Compact is sold rebadged (about £200 cheaper) as the Sabre. Only available from here:
http://www.mrcentralheating.com/boilers.html

Many here testify to it being very reliable. Use two of these at £500 each. One doing upstairs and one down in CH - natural zoning, so cheap to run as upstairs will be off for much of the time. The gas will need to be 22mm for each right back to the meter. One does downstairs DHW, the other the bathroom DHW. Combine the DHW outlets of both using a two check valves and a shock arrestor for the bath - thena very quick bath fill up.

You have backup if one is out then DHW and heating in the house somewhere. Both then on garage wall.

Filling one in the loft. The condensate is not highly corrosive and will not rot a cast iron soil stack. at all. It is about the same acidity as Coca Cola. You can always fit an Atmos combi (excellent quality) which pump the condensate into the exhaust stream, so no condensate pipe needed. Almos has some decent flowrates:
http://www.atmos.uk.com/product_group.asp?section=000200130005

Boilers in the loft need a permanent ladder (can be shootdown), boards to the boiler and more than an adequate light. If it is near the hatch a rail around the hatch, which can be 2"x2" screwed to the rafters.

On any boiler it is best to fit a Magnaclean filter on the return to the boiler.

I am happy to do the non gas plumbing myself, and the eleectrics, but I would feel a bit ifi about the gas not because I cant do it but because of what happens if something goes wrong, the finger will get pointed at the competant person etc.

Cheers and thanks for all the help

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You can fit it and get a Landlords certificate if you want. Get back to the forum for any details.

First of all thanks for the link to the Atmos it looks ok as long as it works as it should, Never heard of them before so interest got the better of me.

As for being competent why in the MI's documents on the site say

" THE SYSTEM MUST BE INSTALLED BY A QUALIFIED HEATING ENGINEER, WITH CORGI REGISTRATION. IN ADDITION MULTIBOILERS SHOULD BE INSTALLED BY A PERSON QUALIFIED TO FIT UNVENTED SYSTEMS" ?



Doesn't mention Competent Mentions Corgi tho thats strange

sime10 said:

First of all thanks for the link to the Atmos it looks ok as long as it works as it should, Never heard of them before so interest got the better of me.

As for being competent why in the MI's documents on the site say

" THE SYSTEM MUST BE INSTALLED BY A QUALIFIED HEATING ENGINEER, WITH CORGI REGISTRATION. IN ADDITION MULTIBOILERS SHOULD BE INSTALLED BY A PERSON QUALIFIED TO FIT UNVENTED SYSTEMS" ?

Doesn't mention Competent Mentions Corgi tho thats strange

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The law is the law. A maker cannot by-pass the law and must uphold and keep to it. DIY is Legal, they have to respect the guarantee. The multiboiler has an unvented cylinder.

Atmos are a quality maker from Holland.

only if installed correctly, and as you should well know , manufacturers like insurance companies can pick holes in policy and law to suit themselves.

Water Systems said:

Take no notice of Corgi sharks who will tell lies to maintain a self interest group.

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This is just embittered and inaccurate bias. RGIs are not members of a club or any other kind of group - they're people who are forced, by law, to register in order to run their business.

Softus said:

Water Systems said:

Take no notice of Corgi sharks who will tell lies to maintain a self interest group.

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This is just embittered and inaccurate bias. RGIs are not members of a club or any other kind of group - they're people who are forced, by law, to register in order to run their business.

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They use this forum to drum up business. Many state overt lies in what a DIYer can or cannot do.

MOD2

They use this forum to drum up business

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OH no they don't