water softener and combi boiler..

r.bartlett · 8 Jan 2007

Hi guy's

Tad confuzzed about the combined use of the above. I have been reading on various W.S manufacturers websites "if used with a combi boiler the hiflo pipes should be used"
So I assume this means that the combi cold feed would be treated and therefore quite likely the heating side + top up too.?

Now is this recommended or should the feed/heating be hard/+combi mate type conditioner fitted instead??

Current -dead- boiler WB siII has a copper HE. I'm fixing short term then changing it soon to either another WB (alli/silicone) or Val SS)

Any thought help and assistance gratefully received

Cheers

Richard

Alfredo · 8 Jan 2007

I have a water softener and a combi. The idea is that all taps EXCEPT one for drinking use softened water, and yes, the supply to the combi for HW and system water is softened.

This makes the use of any other descaler pointless as the hardness ions in the fresh water are captured by the zeolite balls in the softener, as long as you top up the salt regularly

which does not exactly come cheap. When you install the softener there is a test kit to enable you to measure the hardness level and set the softener up accordingly, which is what dictates the level of salt consumption.

The role of the salt is to flush the hardness out of the zeolite balls once they have reached their absorbtion capacity. You do not get salty water out of your taps. Its not the cheapest solution, but IMHO its the superior choice by far, as washing and bathing is an altogether nicer experience with softened water, as well as protecting the combi.

Alfredo

kevplumb · 8 Jan 2007

woahh a lot of mans inc wb say you can't use artifically softened water in the system

Alfredo · 8 Jan 2007

Six years faultess performance tells me otherwise. I live in a very hard water area and my plate to plate is as clean as a whistle judging from the Hot Water performance. These same manufacturers make you install a magnetic scale inhibiter the value of which is somewhat debatable. All the combis I service have these descalers, and frankly I can never decide if they do anygood or not. Do they include the polyphosphonate dosing chemicals fitted to some combi systems and strongly recommended by some. I dunno

If all you are doing is removing the hardness ions in the water then presumably the water going into my combi matches that of combis installed in areas with naturally occurring soft water. If you add inhibitor to your system water then some of that inhibitor is suppressing hardness, so where does that leave you?

I'm just not sure what direction manufacturers are coming from when they make a comment like that. Softened water is perfectly safe to drink, so it can't be that nasty for a heat exchanger I'd have thought.

Alfredo

r.bartlett · 9 Jan 2007

So maybe it depends on the H.E. But what about the rads etc is softened water okay for them...

I have just spoken to WB tech who say Softener not recommended -use a salamander instead.

Anyone else care to comment?

Cheers

Richard

corgiman · 9 Jan 2007

aint there a prob with soft water and rads? dont it eat them?

Alfredo · 9 Jan 2007

Well the rads on my system must be 20 years old if they are a day, and I say again, what possible harm can softened water do if you have inhibitor in. I wonder if some of these guys think softened water is salty and encourages corrosion. I've just drunk a glass..its not salty

Incidentally i don''t have copper pipework in this house, its all thinwall mild steel (installed during copper crisis in Mid 70s apparently), and it hasn't corroded through yet..though I expect it to.

If they don't recommend it perhaps they would like to say why and justify it on chemical grounds. Its not in any text book I have on the subject.

Alfredo

corgiman · 9 Jan 2007

proofs in the pudding then, mind I like raisens in mine but what are you going to do ?

Onetap · 9 Jan 2007

corgiman said:
aint there a prob with soft water and rads? dont it eat them?

Most inhibitor manufacturers recommend that softened water should not be used to fill or top-up a CH system.

http://www.salamander-engineering.co.uk/technicalcentre/faq/faq.htm#softener

Systems containing anti-freeze should be filled with de-ionized water mixed with the inhibitors (usually only chilled water in the UK).

I have a softened cold water supply to the DHW side on my combi,purely for scale prevention.

Papion · 9 Jan 2007

The web site link
http://www.salamander-engineering.co.uk/technicalcentre/faq/faq.htm#softener

also emphasizes that

Does my water quality affect my central heating system?

In a word, YES! Hard water tends to be scale forming, whereas soft water tends to be corrosive. Either way, an inhibitor is beneficial.

My boiler makes knocking and kettling noises. Will System Silencer reduce these noises?

Noisy boilers are usually caused by hard water lime-scale and sludge deposit formations on the heat exchanger surface which causes the surface to become too hot, resulting in localised boiling, irritating noises and ultimately, failure.

The noise created by the scale in the boiler is extremely noisy for a 7 yrs old house in Stansted we rented many years back. The recommendation was to have a new boiler.

Unless you use de-mineral water, I would rather use soft or boiled water with inhibitor than harden water.

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water softener and combi boiler..

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