DIYnot
Local | Network
   DIYnot > Forums
Local | Network
DIYnot Network Local DIYnot Network Local  
  Forum IndexForum Index     RulesRules    HelpHelp     Join FREERegister Free     About CookiesCookies     SearchSearch     LoginLogin 

Replacing ceiling rose with spotlight bar

This topic originated from the How to page called Types of lighting
Click here to return to the page called Types of lighting.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Electrics UK
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lloydg

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:16 pm Reply with quote

I have just bought a 3 halogen bulb spotlight bar and the instructions say to fix each of the wires from my supply into the live, neutral & earth connectors on the spotlight fitting, however when I have removed my old ceiling rose I have 3 cables coming from the ceiling each with one of each (live, neutral & earth) wire with one of the black wires covered in a red sleeve (the switch?) How do I wire all of these cables into the single connector on the new spotlight. Also having removed the old ceiling rose none of my lights on the same fuse work!! Have I blown something? The curcuit breaker is still on. HELP!!
Back to top
 Alert Moderators

If you do not want to see this advert, click here to login or if you are new click here to join free.
bernardgreen

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9658
Location: Bedfordshire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 698 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:28 pm Reply with quote

Don't panic

See

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7553

The three red wires need to be joined together in a separate terminal block. which you will have to supply if the fitting only has three.

Of the three reds.. One is feed from the fuse, one is feed to other lamps ( hence they don't work ) and one is down to the switch.

The two black wires go to the neutral of the new fitting. One is neutral from fuse and one is neutral to other lights.

The black wire with sleeve goes to the live of the fitting ( this the switched live coming back from the switch.

All the three earths MUST be joined together and connected the the earth of the fitting.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
lloydg

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:14 pm Reply with quote

Thanks for that! Forgot to mention that the light is controlled by two switches (as its on the top of the stairs) but there is only one sleeved wire. Does this change what you have said? Also, you mention a separate terminal block for the three red wires - obviously the three wires go into one side of the terminal block, but does a single wire have to come out of the other side into one of the points on the light fitting? All of this and the instructions said 'as long as you can change a plug, you can fit these lights!!!' Oh well! Thanks again
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
bernardgreen

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9658
Location: Bedfordshire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 698 times

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:18 pm Reply with quote

lloydg wrote:
Thanks for that! Forgot to mention that the light is controlled by two switches (as its on the top of the stairs) but there is only one sleeved wire. Does this change what you have said?


No as the switch wiring is between the switches and the black woth sleeve will be the only wire from the switches.

Quote:
Also, you mention a separate terminal block for the three red wires - obviously the three wires go into one side of the terminal block,


Only the three reds go int othis block. Nothing else.

You can put two in one side and one in the other if that makes it easier to wire.

Quote:
but does a single wire have to come out of the other side into one of the points on the light fitting?


NO the fitting only has the neutral from the two blacks, the switchd live from the black with sleeve and the earth.

Quote:
All of this and the instructions said 'as long as you can change a plug, you can fit these lights!!!' Oh well! Thanks again


Thats a sales gimmick. They should supply clear diagrams and include that extra necessary terminal block.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
lloydg

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:12 pm Reply with quote

Three more questions...... 1. What amp terminal block should I use (the circuit breaker says 6A for my lights). 2. How do I extend the wires coming from the ceiling as the existing ones are not long enough to allow me to connect them to the new fitting. 3. Can I do something temporarily to get the rest of my lights working?
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
bernardgreen

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9658
Location: Bedfordshire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 698 times

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:15 pm Reply with quote

lloydg wrote:
Three more questions...... 1. What amp terminal block should I use (the circuit breaker says 6A for my lights). 2. How do I extend the wires coming from the ceiling as the existing ones are not long enough to allow me to connect them to the new fitting. 3. Can I do something temporarily to get the rest of my lights working?



[1] 10 amp is probably the best.

[2] use a 4 way terminal block to terminate and connect the cables. Then run a length of new cable from that to the lamp fitting.

[3] Using a 4 way terminal block

connect all earth wires together. terminal 1

put the black with sleeve into terminal 2 by itself

put the other blacks together into terminal 3

put all the reds together into terminal 4
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
breezer

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 23328
Location: Sussex,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 26 times

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:14 pm Reply with quote

Other (easier) option, chnage the flex from the rose to a 3 core, fix new light to ceiling, spacing it off, and connect flex to new light.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
bernardgreen

from United Kingdom

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 9658
Location: Bedfordshire,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 698 times

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:19 pm Reply with quote

breezer wrote:
Other (easier) option, chnage the flex from the rose to a 3 core, fix new light to ceiling, spacing it off, and connect flex to new light.


That is by far the best way. But too simple....

But has the great advantage that when cost of replacing the halogens becomes too much then putting back the simple hanging lamps is so simple.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
FiveKnuckleShuffle

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Tyne and Wear,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:11 pm Reply with quote

Got a similar problem to original poster. I am replacing a ceiling rose with a new modern type spot light bar. Made not of cables coming out where I have x2 black neutrals, x3 red loop ins, x1 Black live switch and earths.

Problem is that terminal present in new light fitting have only two neutral and x2 live.

I had earthed the earths, put the two neutrals in the relevant terminal holes and then put all the x3 loops in one live and the switch in the other live terminal hole. Light is just on constantly regardless of position of switch. Is there any way I can get this working without the previously suggested extra terminal block?


Thanks in advance.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
Gavin77

from United Kingdom

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Bournemouth,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 6 times

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:39 pm Reply with quote

Er no not really. The terminal strips are about 10p and you can get them from any diy shed / surplus store.

From what you have described, your neutral and switched live are correct. You need to take the 3 red wires out of the light fitting and connect them in a terminal block on their own, then it should work. Check out the wiki, there will be diagrams to help you.
Back to top
The following user says thank you to Gavin77 for this useful post:
FiveKnuckleShuffle (4 Aug 2011)
 Alert Moderators
ban-all-sheds

from United Kingdom

Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 45049
Location: London,
United Kingdom
Thanked: 1585 times

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:51 pm Reply with quote

electrics:lighting:rose


FiveKnuckleShuffle wrote:
then put all the x3 loops in one live and the switch in the other live terminal hole.

Please learn how lighting circuits work.
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
FiveKnuckleShuffle

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Tyne and Wear,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:23 pm Reply with quote

Gavin77 wrote:
Er no not really. The terminal strips are about 10p and you can get them from any diy shed / surplus store.

From what you have described, your neutral and switched live are correct. You need to take the 3 red wires out of the light fitting and connect them in a terminal block on their own, then it should work. Check out the wiki, there will be diagrams to help you.



Cheers fella
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
FiveKnuckleShuffle

from United Kingdom

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Tyne and Wear,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:30 pm Reply with quote

ban-all-sheds wrote:
electrics:lighting:rose


FiveKnuckleShuffle wrote:
then put all the x3 loops in one live and the switch in the other live terminal hole.

Please learn how lighting circuits work.


thanks jobsworth icon_rolleyes.gif
Back to top
 Alert Moderators
Search this topic :: View previous topic :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    DIYnot.com Forum Index > Electrics UK All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Similar Topics   Replies   Views   Posted 
removing a ceiling rose and fitting a spotlight fitting 3 1240 Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:29 am
ceiling rose to spotlight help - neutral wires 2 580 Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:22 pm
ceiling rose swap to r50 spotlight bar 27 420 Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:38 pm
replacing standard ceiling light with multi-spotlight 5 820 Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:46 pm
Kitchen ceiling spotlight help 7 1260 Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:20 pm


 
DIYnot
Find an Expert | Find a Supplier | Search DIYnot.com
Network | Advertising | Newsletter
DIY | DIY How To | @home | DIY Wiki | DIY Forum
By using this site you agree to our Terms of Service / Disclaimer.
Please read our Privacy Policy. Copyright © 2000-2014 DIYnot Limited.