4 terminals 2 wires

eugeneg · 23 Apr 2004

I have a light switch which I would like to replace with one including a neon light to warn when the light is on.
I bought a new switch and on the back there are 4 terminals:
N Load, L Load, N Supply, L Supply (and earth)
The only cables I have are one red and one black.
Which wire goes where please ?

ninebob · 23 Apr 2004

The switch you have bought is not designed for your intended application. It is for use when you have both live and neutral going into the switch, and both going out again to the light or other appliance.

The cables you have are live and switched live (does the black have a bit of red tape on it) so you need a standard one way switch. I'm not sure I've ever seen one with a neon though.

Having said that, try this - connect your red wire to L-Supply, and your black wire to L-Load. My suspicion is that it will work as a switch, but the neon will not light.

Any of you pro sparks want to give a more enlightened view on this?

plugwash · 23 Apr 2004

you can't use a switch with neon on normal ligting cuircuit wiring?

normally a switch wire has just live and switched live
to make a neon work you would need live neutral and switched live so you would have to run a 3 and earth 2 the light in place of your existing tiwn and earth

eugeneg · 23 Apr 2004

Is there any way to get this to work ? Perhaps if I joined two terminals together with two small pieces of wire ?
If not, where could I look for a one way switch with a neon ? I need to know when the light is on and can't see the light from the switch position.
Thanks.

plugwash · 23 Apr 2004

the only way to make it work is to replace the cable from the light fitting to the switch with 3 and earth otherwise there is nothing to power the neon

in the light fitting you will see that the black of the existing switch cable (should be marked with a ring of red sleeving or tape but may not be) is conencted to the live from the lightbulb and the red is connected to the two lives from the ligting cuircuit all neutrals should be connected together as should all earths

in the 3 and earth you should mark the yeloow with a red ring of sleeve or tape and the blue with a black ring of sleeve or tape and the bare earth should be covered with earth sleeveing

at the light fitting conenct it as follows
red-cuiruit live
yellow-light live
blue-neutral
earth-earths

at the swtich connect it as follows

red-supply live
blue-supply neutral
yellow-load live
earth to earth terminal in box and on to earth terminal on switch if there is one

breezer · 23 Apr 2004

as everyone has said it will NOT WORK AS YOU WANT IT TO without a new cable to the switch.

May i suggest that you put another light on the ceiling. wired in paralell with the light you are concerned about

eugeneg · 23 Apr 2004

Well thanks for the comments. I didn't want to waste bytes on irrelevant detail previously, but it now seem relevant to say that I live in a 350 year old listed house (although the wiring is not that old), and the light we are talking about is 2 flourescant tubes and a 60w bulb nestling in the fibre glass insulation between floor and ceiling with cabling well embedded. They are in the cellar and my concern is that twice someone has left the light on and thereby caused sufficient heat to shiver my timbers. Perhaps I'm over reacting. Or just plain mean.

Perhaps an alternative is to wire in series a small bulb next to the switch to do the job of the neon. Weird that there are no commercially available one way switches with a neon.

breezer · 23 Apr 2004

eugeneg said:
Weird that there are no commercially available one way switches with a neon.

There ARE, but it will not work as you want, unless you run in a new cable, fitting an extra lamp also means fitting a new cable, you can not wire it across the switch as agin it will not work as you want.

If you are woried about some one leaving a light on why dont you use a pneumatic, no extra wires required, and they turn off after a predetermined time which you can set

eugeneg · 23 Apr 2004

pneumatic !! Of course, so obvious when you think of it.
I was thinking of removing the neon from the new switch and holding in in place with some insulating tape and gum, but the pneumatic may be safer. Can probly get them with variable delays too. Magic.
Thanks.

breezer · 23 Apr 2004

eugeneg said:
Can probly get them with variable delays too. Magic.
Thanks.

i did say and they turn off after a predetermined time which you can set

get one from here

other suppliers of pneumatic switches are available

ninebob · 23 Apr 2004

Pneumatics are a good idea in principal, but is there any way of regulating them? Personally, I live in a victorian house converted into flats by a private landlord. If I come home in the dark, when I press the switch in the hall it's an all-on race to get to my door on the first floor and get the key in the lock before the light goes off. If I'm carrying something, or if I've had a couple of pints, it's hopeless. My landlord is an understanding chap, and I've explained this to him, but he says there's no way of extending the delay. Any suggestions?

breezer · 23 Apr 2004

he either doesnt know how or is lying, you can make the delay longer (but how depends on brand of switch) also if you change it he may want to know who did

ninebob · 23 Apr 2004

like I said, he seems to be a cracking bloke: he's let me do any improvements I've wanted without hinderance and immediately replaced anything that wasn't right in the flat. So maybe he just doesn't know how to alter the delay - would it help if i took a picture of the downstairs switch, then you could advise me how to adjust it?

securespark · 23 Apr 2004

You can get a result of sorts with a switch fitted with a neon locator, except it works the other way around.

Wire a neon locator to live and switched live and it will illuminate when OFF and extinguish when the switch is ON. Is that any good?

MK make them BTW, and I think there is a company who makes a switch and neon locator combined.

Switchlite Dt2503 A - see tlc.

plugwash · 23 Apr 2004

a word of warning neon locators and floursent lighting are a bad idea

another possibility for you which will let you use that neon switch provided you are not using flouresent lighting

wire together the supply live and neutral terminals and connect the lightswitch wire accross the load terminals

this will cause the neon to light when the light is off

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4 terminals 2 wires

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