Noisy System when turned off

System fine - Transco come to service the bolier and then banging noise starts in pipes around hot water tank.

They come back and want £500 to de-scale system... I say F**** off.

I drained system and filled with new water for a while before adding de-scaler. It definitely got much better so I left for a couple of weeks.

Drained the system and the banging has started again.

q. Shall I add de-scaler again and leave longer or is there another cause for the banging.

Transco personell are not qualified to repair boilers or any other gas appliances for that matter.

Their engineers are only permitted to disconnect an appliance that has been deemed Imediatly Dangerous.

Alan

Transco .. sorry I meant our British Gas operatives or whatever company they are this week.

"Banging" can be caused by a build up of limescale in the heat exchanger, so BG are not necessarily trying to pull a fast one. The trouble with your post is you don't say how old your system is or if you are in a particularly hard water area. If on the assumption you are suffering from limescale then it is a pointless exercise to keep putting chemicals in your heating system as this achieves nothing, even if you use a hosepipe the results will be not a lot better. The service that BG offered you was to have your system completely flushed out with a very high pressure pump and this includes the pipework rather than just the rads or just the boiler. £500 is a lot of money and there are companies that will do it cheaper for you, but this is a job that takes about 5 hours (On average) and it does take the form of inhibiting future build up of scale and Hydrogen etc.
I am very qualified at what I do for a living and work with water and gas, these qualifications DO NOT GROW ON TREES and I am continually suprised by you people that just see £500 rather than the equipment, training, certification etc etc etc that it costs engineers just to go to work. If you employed a solicitor, a dentist or an accountant you would just pay whatever the going rate was for that person to impart their skill to help you. WHY OH WHY are Heating Engineers so different.
Just be big and pay a professional...

Appreciate your comments and will definitely consider paying a pro ... however in the interest of trying to understand whats going on here Im confused as to why the banging stops immediately as it has today since I drained, re-filled and added a restorer (fernox) to the system last night.

I cant say how old the system is I guess around 5 years, as to wether it is hard water area ... no idea can find out though.

I did notice a lot of sludge in the header tank (which I cleaned) but not much limescale (on the cold water feed valve).

cheers

stulew I agree 100% with what you say.

Perhaps the reason why plumbers & heating engineers are regarded in such low esteem is simple, I think.

FIRSTLY there is this idea around that plumbing/heating is childs play anybody can do it. Perhaps they can BUT have you noticed the number of forums etc devoted to DIY plumbing springing up and how many problems people seem to have? Simple things like leaks from joints.

It's so simple that adverts abound of quick courses. eBay filled with complete courses on CD for under £10!!

I went to a DIY job couple of months ago. Simple job to move three motorised valves. I was called in when handywork failed to work.

Customer had managed to break actuator off one valve. Blew main consumer unit fuse and damaged PCB in boiler! Cost of his damage - lots.

SECONDLY as fast as these new forums spring up professionals jump at the chance to give away the experience they have gained, and paid for, detailed descriptions how to do a job. Some think hell this is easy I got my boiler working - after replacing PCB, diverter, over limit stat etc all because of an exterior fault such as motorised valve.

I used to give away this knowledge but now that is rare but there are still plenty of others willing to. Until we act like professionals, stop giving the impression our job childs play, we will never be viewed in the same way as a solicitor, a dentist or an accountant who you would just pay whatever the going rate was for that person to impart their skill to help you.

Alan

Im sorry I thought a forum was for sharing information and knowledge. Not here it seems.








PS. For every professional plumber there are hundreds who are only interested in ripping 'joe public' off. Until the industry gets properly regulated you'll always be fighting for the recognition you deserve !

AlanE and StuleW
The pair of you make me laugh, if your views are as such then why are you both in the forum in the first place. Plumbing is simple just as any trade is. If you are methodical and have the correct tools anything can be achieved. Lawyers, doctors go to University and study for years to achieve diplomas, they then have to endure years of struggle as juniors, working excruciatingly long hours learning the trade and having to cope with student loan debts obtained whilst at university.

Plumbers go to a day release course for a maximum of three years all suubsidised by local goverment and the companies your are affliated to whilst carrying out your trade apprenticeship. You then go out to the big bad world and learn the skills through experience.

You then come on here and patronize people who post messages seeking advice, if you have that only intention and cannot offer any constructive support then don't waste your time. We nor anyone else owe you a living. Genuine people do it because they get satisfaction from helping people....

We dont want to come on here seeking advice and be treated like imbeciles and continually being told off like school children by the head teacher

so you explain the principles off heat loss calcs,secondary circulation flow rate how many threads constitute a seal on black iron ,how you size pipework , and all the regs that go with it
WORLD IS FULL OF

(gets off soapbox) cos some of are proud to be able to say i am

Most practical jobs are not beyond the realms of a person who is technically competent. Whilst there is no subsititute for experience, this is gained by each job one does and there are plenty of resources to find out information. The basics of plumbing are not rocket science just like motor mechanics is not. Nowadays, even lawyers do not have things their own way as more and more information about legal matters is coming into the public realm and people can do their own conveyancing, making wills, even conduct their own defence if they feel confident enough to. So you should not feel singled out. From my experience, I have found that there are good plumbers and others who are not, and in a few cases I have had had to redo work done by plumbers I have employed. So, we are right to question the amount being charged if it seems excessive. There are enough "cowboys" in the trade to make us all cautious. Also, the customer is paying for a job to be done and not for the qualifications and the years of experience the plumber has invested. When I go to get my car fixed, my mechanic does not base the cost on his qualifications and experience, but on the time the job will take and the cost of the materials. Plumbing is no different to any other trade.

exept thats exactly what you pay for renewing reg every year time off to attend college for assesments etc and all the years on s**t wages as an apprentice
not to mention paying for manufacturers courses and the lost time to attend them

if this job is that easy why aint we all on the dole

"if this job is that easy why aint we all on the dole"
... for the same reason the motor mechanics, washing machine repairmen, carpenters, bricklayers, lawyers, gardeners, electricians, etc, are not all on the dole. I did not say it was all easy and there are aspects best left to the professionals.

my tuppence worth.

forums are useful (partiulrly this one )

The "problem" is people come on here and say xyz etc......, what they do not say (or not at first) is that Z only happened after they thought they knew what to do and found out the hard way they havent a clue what they are doing.


So replies are given to xyz as they appear to be. Also although "P Q & R" may apply to "Tim from Timbucktoo" it may not apply to "Dave from Dagenham" who has the same boiler, but a differnet plumbing lay out

Advice on these forums is given freely, but is not specific to everyone (yes there are some "generic things" )

Also some posters (no one specific) appear to know what they are saying but can they actually do the job?

some say,...............money is tight etc (again no one specific) they want a "quick fix" but sometimes this is not possible.

What must be taken into consideration, is the ability of the person to use tools, the ability to read and understand instructions and a dose of common sense, you may laugh but look how many posts have been made in General DIY , that should not be there, electrical and plumbing to name but two topics.

The pros on this site will /should only give "general guidance" not detailed instructions as each problem / fault is different, and as previously mentioned not all the relevant information is always given by the origonal poster.

Difference between plumbing and bodging...

OK - any idiot can bodge but plumbing takes care, experience, knowledge and (especially) knowing how to fix the problem quickly and completely, a) so that it does nbot cost too much and b) so that the exact same problem does not happen again within a couple of years.

Take this very morninig's example. Tatty old Ideal Mexico with a broken pump. Had been changed ('about 3 years ago' - probably nearer 5) for a crappy cheap thing. Pump isolators not holding and (worse still) pump flange nuts jammed solid and showing signs of a cold chisel being used previously.

Turned out the Village Idiot had actually removed the whole pump and one of the pump isolators last time and worked on it in the garden (presumably with hammer and chisel). So this time, I had to do it all over again: drain system, replace BOTH pump isolators AND the pump with decent parts, refill system with corrosion inhibitor, so maybe this time it'll hold together until the boiler falls apart and will be easy to dismantle if required. as it is, householder paid for two hours work instead of 30 minutes (to isolate and change just the pump).

It's not just knowing what to do in theory....

My partner and I have personally lost respect for plumbers. Most of them do the job for money and feel they don't owe their customers a duty of care. 10% are genuine and 90% are cowboys who studied plumbing because they needed something to get them off the dole queue.

Since Dec 24 we have had problems with our heating and till today had no resolution.

We had loud vibrating noise in our pipes in the airing cupboard and called Glowarm whom we had paid for 3 years for servicing without claiming a thing. Glowarm who are meant to be a reputable company and serviced our fairly new system (2005) came round 3 times and changed three different things (timer, valve, thermostat) but nothing worked because it was all guesswork and when they finally returned our call it was to ask us why we stopped our direct debit. We hired another plumbing firm One stop plumbing and they came four times, flushed the system, changed our 3 port valve and changed our bedroom valve all for a nice sum of £585 plus VAT and left us with a boiler that didn’t work either. It started switching to reset. Each time we called they sent us the same useless engineer who asked me (a lawyer) what I think the problem might be. We called another company again who are now coming on Monday after the One stop threatened to charge us for their next visit (forgetting that all the visits they made so far had not solved our problem and left us (with a small child) with no heating for 3 weekends. We have no idea when we would have heating. I read on this site plumbers accusing people for paying comboys and I just laugh. Is cowboys written on anyone’s forehead? All the engineers that visited our home were Corgi registered but all they are interested in is taking your money. They have no sprit of excellence. We paid lots of money to ‘corgi' registered engineers with big names, Glow arm, one stop plumbing , took six days off in all to wait at home yet we are still without heating as we speak.

Can you blame customers for accusing plumbers of not having any pride in their job and loosing faith in the whole plumbing industry?