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best fixing for shiplap cladding

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seneca

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:42 am Reply with quote

not sure if this is the right forum, but what is the best kind of nail for securing shiplap to the outside of a shed. Its treaded 12mm, and I don't have a nail gun. Also, I'd rather they were not very noticable. So, lost head, panel pins, oval?
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big-all

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:51 am Reply with quote

i screwed mine together in the centre of each plank every 2ft it looks fine
http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/bigall2005/?action=view&current=workshop001.jpg

was your wood sent away to be treated if so i would give it a good 4 or 5 weeks coverd air drying time assuming its x 5" the coverage should be 110mm ish [join three bits together and measure and measure the middle bit on the back thats what it covers icon_wink.gif ]
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JohnD

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:13 pm Reply with quote

outdoors it will be exposed to the weather. I used countersunk brass screws, with pilot holes, I wouldn't use anything that can rust. The brass tarnishes so colour is not visible in the wood. Stainless is probably better and not very expensive if you buy a big box. Or I suppose you could use a biggish galvanised screw.

Just one screw in the centre (at intervals), if you put 2 or more in, it will crack as the boards expand and contract with the weather.

The bottom board is going to be wetter, with rain splash even if lifted off the ground, so you will probably need to replace it while the rest of the shed is still sound. I cut a few spare pieces to length and tucked them behind the cladding for use as later replacements.

As you see, mine is not a shed and is not in such a grand scale as big-all's

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/JohnD_UK/POL_0101.jpg


Last edited by JohnD on Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total
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big-all

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:41 pm Reply with quote

i like yours john d at least its not messy icon_biggrin.gif icon_wink.gif
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JohnD

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:15 pm Reply with quote

all the mess is just out of shot icon_wink.gif I moved it for the photo icon_lol.gif
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seneca

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:03 pm Reply with quote

screws icon_confused.gif never thought about using them. I presume they should have a small head. can they naturally be pushed into the wood so they don't stick out on the surface. I always assumed a couple of lost head, oval, or panel pins would do it and never considered screws.

the shiplap was already treated when I bought it from the timber yard and yes it does cover 110mm.

like the workshop big-all. never seen so many doors/compartments. Which ones the serving hatch for your dinner? icon_wink.gif meals out in the workshop? what did you do to deserve that icon_lol.gif

love the nesting box. did you make that? I plan to make a few as I have a lot of 30cm bits of treated floorboard left over. I figure they are easier to design/build than sheds!
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Thermo

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:14 pm Reply with quote

if its just a shed oval nails or annular nails will be fine. if its a palace like these guys have got then go for something more upmarket. be carful with screws as they can split shiplap
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JohnD

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:16 pm Reply with quote

countersunk screws will put the head beneath the surface of the wood. Experiment - if it is soft, they may pull themselves in without needing to be bored out. In soft timber, boring countersinks may cause the heads to go too deep.

However, it is important to drill the shiplap for the screw shanks to avoid splitting as mentioned by Thermo. this will also make it easier for the heads to sink.

p.s. I drilled mine before treating all faces with fence stain which repels water. I am hoping it will improve longevity. I fixed them afterwards. You need to pack between the boards with cardboard or something so they are not tight, as they hav nowhere to go when they swell.

Palace indeed! icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
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big-all

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:55 pm Reply with quote

the main reason i used screws was because the cladding as promised would be stored under cover in the wood yard untill i wanted it i asked for a sample of untreated cladding to allow me to gauge the size dry glad i did

the cladding was treated before being stored out doors under cover ----not icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif

so i had the shed with 18mm ext ply floor and roof lots of temporary covering [all the panels from the dismantles 8x6ft shed tarpaulen hardboard ect] to fill the gaps and all the shiplap deliverd coverd in snow and ice icon_cry.gif

because it was 4.2 and 4.8 lengths [i think] i had 12ft coverd by the shed and the extra coverd with tarpalen during the days i had to lay the planks against the fence ect to try and melt the ice and and dry out a bit

i then over the next 3 or 4 weeks took enough wood indoors to dry one walls worth at a time for about 2 weeks all over the house starting upstairs in the cooler well ventilated rooms then down stairs to the warmer ventilated rooms for about 2 weeks untill the wood felt dry

i still wasnt happy as the wood came out at between about 112and 113mm
so i decided to screw the panels on with 3.5 by 35 and 40mm yes the wood does split if you try and pull the screws in to tight but they dont look at all bad they are all on the surface or slightly pulled in they look fine they are put in in nice lines they haven rusted at all they have just tarnished i insert the screws at the edge in at an angle so the screws are 2" away from the edge to reduce splitting
the screws are part off the shed i havnt tried to hide them and they looked great as golden "buttons "
any way 2 years after construction they are just there like the t hinges and they look great
eeehhh well actualy they dont look great they dont look bad you just dont notice them so thats perfect icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_wink.gif

any way to cut an even longer story short [yawn yawn icon_rolleyes.gif ]

i am glad i screwed the boards in as during the height of summer the boards shrunk to around 107 mm which ment that where the board whernt tightly butted against each other they actualy became parted as in the tounge came out the groove in several points icon_cry.gif icon_cry.gif

solution remove all the cladding from each wall in turn secure the bottom peice add second plank with 2mm gap [guessed] screw and work up untill below the windows then work top down untill the last plank of which you have to remove the tounge from the back of the groove and extend the groove for a few mm untill the board fits the gap add a batton on the back to hold the boards together

in the end your talking approching 2" of shrinkage over a 6ft span

the bird boxes where made from the offcuts and only made from txg no other wood was used except a dowel for the perch

as i hate waste icon_wink.gif
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seneca

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:06 am Reply with quote

never knew wood expanded/contracted that much over the seasons!

I already picked up the tip bout putting a match between the shiplap and then removing it, thus leaving an expansion gap. What about rotting at the ends? my shed frame is 4.3m long and the only shiplap I could get was 4.2, meaning I have 50mm on each end not covered. I planned to put a separate vertical strip down each side (leaving a few mm for the shiplap to expand) so that the ends of the shiplap would not be exposed. one thing I have noticed on a lot of old sheds is the corners of the ship (where 2 walls meet) always seem prone to rot. If I could find some kind of right angled corner strip for each corner it would be perfect.

oh, and while we are talking sheds what are you guys using for roofing? I planed to make a timber apex frame and then use metal, box profile sheets with a ridge on top. any suggestions, ideas, or pitfalls to look out for (i have posted a roofing thread before, but you guys may not have seen it. )
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JohnD

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:20 am Reply with quote

I managed to get some teak strips for mine, screwed onto the backing so that they stand proud of the ends of the shiplap. If it overlapped I'm sure that would be even better, buy I'd expect an "L" shape to crack.

I also stood all the cut ends in a tub of Cuprinol clear during preparation, and when applying the water repellent stain, gave all end-grain extra coats (I did the backs of my boards aw well as the fronts, before fixing, and included the ends when I was doing each side, so they got twice as many coats). My way is rather slow so would be uneconomical if you were paying someone by the hour.
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masona

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:11 pm Reply with quote

seneca wrote:
Also, I'd rather they were not very noticable. So, lost head, panel pins, oval?

Can you not use screws on the inside?

I did this on my summerhouse this way and you cannot see any screws on the outside, a lot neater icon_biggrin.gif

I used a square batten to the side of the upright timber stud then pre-drill and screw it to the centre of the log cladding, make sure it's the correct length screws.

Much easier to treat it without any runs from the nails or screws head
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seneca

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:54 pm Reply with quote

the shiplap (not log lap) is approx 13mm so can't see how to put a screw through the inside. Apparently the shiplap was 19mm, but the treating, which was already done when I bought it, squashed it down to 13mm. The only log lap that was available was untreated, and the shiplap was already treated and about a quarter of the price icon_smile.gif . I'd like the shed/workshop/sanctuary to look good, but at the end of the day, it is 'just' a wooden building at the bottom of the garden, and behind a few trees.
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big-all

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:20 pm Reply with quote

seneca wrote:
the shiplap (not log lap) is approx 13mm so can't see how to put a screw through the inside. Apparently the shiplap was 19mm, but the treating, which was already done when I bought it, squashed it down to 13mm. The only log lap that was available was untreated, and the shiplap was already treated and about a quarter of the price icon_smile.gif . I'd like the shed/workshop/sanctuary to look good, but at the end of the day, it is 'just' a wooden building at the bottom of the garden, and behind a few trees.



no no no wrong sort of treatmen icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif icon_wink.gif

the size quoted for all worked timber [planed or moulded]is the sawn size used before you put it through the machine to mould it

thats why when you buy 2x1" its 20x44 or your 5" x3/4" finnishes up at 110mm x13mm icon_lol.gif icon_wink.gif
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big-all

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:34 pm Reply with quote

seneca wrote:
What about rotting at the ends? my shed frame is 4.3m long and the only shiplap I could get was 4.2, meaning I have 50mm on each end not covered. I planned to put a separate vertical strip down each side (leaving a few mm for the shiplap to expand) so that the ends of the shiplap would not be exposed. one thing I have noticed on a lot of old sheds is the corners of the ship (where 2 walls meet) always seem prone to rot. If I could find some kind of right angled corner strip for each corner it would be perfect.



i use 2x1" treated timber to cover the ends and work up to i secure the timber 1" off the frame and 1" on this means you have 1 inch sticking out each end to fit the boards in between and protruding 12mm beyond the face off the timber to help protect the ends and on the other wall round the corner you have the 1" thickness off the timber to butt up to

if you look at the link to my shed earlier in the thread you will see the timber behind the "T" hinges its actualy 3" because of the door but same idea ovelaping the timber you can't see by 12mm

you timber will only move around 0.5 to 1mm over the length it does'nt move along the grain only accross icon_wink.gif
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