BT Master Socket - can NTE5 extensions interfere with ADSL?

c128 · 9 Jul 2007

Someone I know has been having some real problems with their ADSL broadband from Tiscali, dropped connections during peak hours, only working with Speedtouch modems and not with Sagem ones. Not getting very far with either Tiscali or BT resolving this, but we noticed something on the weekend when trying out a new ADSL modem router...

Their master socket is on (old) NTE5 one, the faceplate of which is wired for an extension that then goes into the loft and is split for two further extensions - these have been there for years and years and work absolutely fine for voice calls, dial-up internet etc. However...plug the new ADSL modem router into a filter plugged into the front of the NTE5 box and it fails to get a signal - remove the face plate and plug the router+filter into the test socket, and it gets a signal. The faceplate itself looks clean and fine and the front socket works OK for a telephone plugged straight into it, as do the extensions from it. We haven't tried removing the extension wired into the faceplate (which I know is our responsibility but was done by a BT engineer along time ago) but could the extensions be interferring, even with nothing connected?

Chivers7 · 9 Jul 2007

Make sure every item that's plugged into a socket is fitted with a filter- especially a Skybox

c128 · 9 Jul 2007

Chivers7 said:
Make sure every item that's plugged into a socket is fitted with a filter- especially a Skybox

No Sky box, but everything else does have a filter.

TicklyT · 9 Jul 2007

It's possible that extension wiring can interfere with an ADSL signal, especially if the extension wiring is on split pairs in the cable, or there are multiple cable ends, as in a star wired system, or multiple master sockets fitted.

c128 · 9 Jul 2007

Ahh..that's interesting, thanks. The only reason I'm currently loathe to try the socket on the NTE faceplate without the extension connected behind it is that the ADSL connection works, albeit only with a speedtouch modem and with "issues", when connected to one of the extension sockets, so I don't want to upset anything that might be subtle but permitting this to currently work...

I guess though that, basically, the only way to know that the face plate isn't faulty is to pull the extension wiring from it, connect the ADSL modem router into the NTE5 socket and then see if I get an ADSL signal?

For reference, this is what's currently connected up:

...although I couldn't tell you (currently) much detail on that junction box as it's up in the loft somewhere...

Lectrician · 9 Jul 2007

Where is the computer with the ADSL modem? At the NTE or at an extension??

You are not trying to put two modems on the line together are you?

Disconnect terminal 3 from the master socket, and fit filters to ALL sockets.

Best bet is a master faceplate filter on the NTE, with the modem located here. The remaining extensions will then be filtered.

c128 · 9 Jul 2007

Lectrician said:
Where is the computer with the ADSL modem? At the NTE or at an extension??

Currently a Speedtouch modem is connected to one of the extensions, although that's basically all that will work there. Sagem ones won't, and a new Netgear ADSL modem router won't get a signal there either. It's a recent discovery, with the modem router on loan, that it will get a signal when plugged into the test socket but not when plugged into the front socket of the NTE5.

Lectrician said:
You are not trying to put two modems on the line together are you?

No, not at the same time, during any of this. The aim is to have a single modem router at some point, but we're just trying to troubleshoot the issues with the connections first. Originally we had thought that the new modem router could replace the Speedtouch on the extension and be used there but, like the Sagem USB modems, it doesn't get an ADSL connection when there...

Lectrician said:
Disconnect terminal 3 from the master socket, and fit filters to ALL sockets.

Filters are connected to all sockets (as per the above). Do you mean disconnect terminal 3 from going to the extensions via the faceplate? What's the impact of that?

Lectrician said:
Best bet is a master faceplate filter on the NTE, with the modem located here. The remaining extensions will then be filtered.

Due to the layout, the modem router will eventually need to be on one of the exensions, where the current Speedtouch USB modem (kind of) works.

Lectrician · 9 Jul 2007

Put a filter on all extensions. Choose an extension for the router/modem.

Disconnect the ringer from the master socket - terminal 3. This can act as an out of balance aerial, dropping connections. It is a known documented issue, and was specced in the early release of ADSL as a must do to all ADSL provisions. This was lifted when it was realised how much it would cost for an eng visit each time.

The ringer is not required for ADSL lines, as the filters each generate a ringer for the phones.

How far from the local exchange are you, and what speed internet have you got?? Long distances and max packages can be very unstable, and very suceptable to drops with the ringer still connected or poor extension wiring.

The router would be far better at the NTE and a faceplate filter fitted to the NTE. run network cables from here to PC's.

c128 · 9 Jul 2007

Lectrician said:
Disconnect the ringer from the master socket - terminal 3. This can act as an out of balance aerial, dropping connections. It is a known documented issue, and was specced in the early release of ADSL as a must do to all ADSL provisions. This was lifted when it was realised how much it would cost for an eng visit each time.

The ringer is not required for ADSL lines, as the filters each generate a ringer for the phones.

Ahh..that's really interesting...thanks! I didn't know this and I'll give it a go when I'm next round.

Lectrician said:
How far from the local exchange are you, and what speed internet have you got?? Long distances and max packages can be very unstable, and very suceptable to drops with the ringer still connected or poor extension wiring.

They're around 6 miles. We're not expecting miracles here but just a stable 1MB connection (stability being the key). Others on the street do have a stable ADSL service, although one person required their drop-cable to be renewed. Basically I want to get them to a situation where we know the on-site wiring is all fine, and that anything else is something we can fight to get sorted with BT and/or the provider without being fobbed off.

Lectrician said:
The router would be far better at the NTE and a faceplate filter fitted to the NTE. run network cables from here to PC's.

Yeah I know, but it's just not going to be possible in the current layout of things. Wireless won't give good coverage to both clients and it's not going to be possible to hardwire Cat 5 from there. I know that leaves home-plug and the like, but... Currently the most practical situation is a wireless modem router at one extension, cable from the switch to the PC there and then wireless for the other client.

Lectrician · 9 Jul 2007

6 miles from the exchange.....

Long way!

I would deff remove the ringer wire. I would also check and double check all wiring to make sure it is sound.

You could also split the cable at the JB in the loft, and filter the leg which feeds only a phone - this removes yet another peice of cable - every bit counts when you are this far from the exchange.

Also, if the cable is 3 pair, you could fit a master faceplate filter at the NTE, use 2 pairs to distribute the filtered signal to BT sockets, and then use the spare pair to deliver the unfiltered connection to an RJ11 socket - these are available.

bernardgreen · 9 Jul 2007

Lectrician said:
Also, if the cable is 3 pair, you could fit a master faceplate filter at the NTE, use 2 pairs to distribute the filtered signal to BT sockets, and then use the spare pair to deliver the unfiltered connection to an RJ11 socket - these are available.

I agree with the use of one single filter in the NTE 5 front plate for the entire phone network.

But do not use the third pair in the cable for ADSL when the other two pairs are carrying phone signals. Use a separate single pair for the ADSL.

c128 · 10 Jul 2007

Thanks all for the above - all good stuff and lots to think about/try. I'll be round to the place in question over the next week or so, so I'll post-back the results...

c128 · 10 Jul 2007

Lectrician said:
6 miles from the exchange.....

Long way!

Actually it's not that far at all...not sure where I got that from. A while ago I used BT's broadband availability page to see what speed they were likely to get (although they didn't go with BT) - this did identify a potential speed, distance from exchange and exchange name... Can't find this page now on BT's site to double-check, but I remember where the exchange was and, looking at its distance from them, it's probably more like 2.5 miles if you were driving, so unless that cable takes a really circuitous route

Added Later

...that search page does seem to have disappeared, or at least changed location so I can't find it, on BT's web-site - I've since found a couple of other third party links to it that now just go to their main BT Broadband web-site. It was quite useful as it took phone number/post code and flagged your exchange details, including distance from it. Anyone know of an alternative?

davelx · 10 Jul 2007

http://eco.btwholesale.com/broadband1/

and fill in the "can I get broadband" section on the right hand side.

Also:

http://www.broadbandchecker.co.uk/broadband-checker.php

c128 · 10 Jul 2007

Neither show distance though...maybe I imagined it? They confirm the exchange name though - thanks.

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

BT Master Socket - can NTE5 extensions interfere with ADSL?

Similar threads