Working at Mains Pressure..?!

2520years · 22 Aug 2007

I've been at a property this morning where there's a leak before the stop tap. I tried to turn off the outside stop tap, but it's broken. I rang United Utilities and they said they'll fix the stop tap in the next 12 weeks!

They recommended I cut the pipe at mains pressure and put a tap on it. The problems seem to me to be:
1) Working at mains pressure.
2) Fitting a stop tap to a pipe that's already sprung one leak.
3) Fitting a stop tap to a pipe that appears to me made out of lead.

Should I just take the soaking and hope for the best? What would a more experienced plumber do?

Dan Robinson · 22 Aug 2007

How bad is the leak? If the leak is not too serious then let it ride until they give you a nice new stop cock to play with.

Otherwise, it looks like you'll get a tad damp.

Is the offending stop cock outside?

fitz1 · 22 Aug 2007

is it on lead.

2520years · 22 Aug 2007

The leak is only like a pin-hole but it can't be left for 12 weeks. I've just been back and put some tape (the sort used on soil pipes) on it which seems okay as a temporary measure. The leak is inside, just before the stop-cock but it's an empty shop. The offending stop-cock is the one outside under the pavement. It seems to have been snapped off as it's not square or like a tap head but it's round and got sharp burrs on each side.

It's on lead. The job is to replace all the lead pipe inside the property, but, to be honest, I was going to leave the bit that's underground.

I've asked the customer to nag United Utilities because it's leaking and 12 weeks is pathetic.

Dan Robinson · 22 Aug 2007

Incredibly pathetic. You could try the "it's causing subsidence" ploy, but its not always sucessful.

If the place is empty then all you need to do is get the new stop cock setup with a bit of hose leading to somewhere safe - and downhill of you). Cut the pipe effing quick and get the lead loxk on.

Leave the new stop cock open so that at least some of the pressure is taken down the hose.

How easy it is and how wet you get depends on the mains pressure.

gas4you · 22 Aug 2007

wait for the next hot and sunny day (oh dreaming then I think

) and when you get wet it will be very refreshing

2520years · 22 Aug 2007

Cheers Dan. I suggested saying he's worried it will flood the shops next door...that could be costly at least.

Softus · 22 Aug 2007

And get a mate to video it so that we can all enjoy it.

Dan Robinson · 22 Aug 2007

Oh please don't forget that...

voiceofthemysteron · 23 Aug 2007

2520years said:
Should I just take the soaking and hope for the best? What would a more experienced plumber do?

Experienced plumbers would clamp the pipe using a lead pipe clamp (whats that i hear Dan say) or lump hammer and then freeze it to do a proper job and not get wet.....simple eh Dan

Another 3 posts of twoddle from our inexperienced plumber

Dan Robinson · 23 Aug 2007

So why didn't you offer your sage words earlier?

Oh, I forgot, you proably had to go and phone a friend. Surpised you have any though.

2520 - you're welcmne by the way.

Softus · 23 Aug 2007

I see you have a personal troll, Dan!

ChrisR · 23 Aug 2007

Depends how much pipe you have to play with, and why it's sprung a leak. Lead gets attacked by salts from (probably) cement. If you bend an attacked piece of lead pipe it splits, and you see brown edges to the crystalline surface.
Two things which can work, well enough to be able to freeze the pipe, at least, are
1)

or

Some of the repair putties are pretty good too.

and, 2) surprisingly, tapping the pipe. Not hard enough to bend the pipe out of round, but if you put dozens of tiny dents ( a few mm across) in the surface you can re-form the lead enough to stop the leak.

BoxBasher · 23 Aug 2007

2520years said:
It's on lead. The job is to replace all the lead pipe inside the property, but, to be honest, I was going to leave the bit that's underground.

What's the point in replacing some of the lead but leaving the most problematic bit underground?

I imagine that the shop is getting a refit? That means that any future problems with the underground supply are going to cause disruption.

Not being a plumber, but seeing at least one situation like this a week (amateur property developers eh?) I would:

(1)Hammer the lead flat to stop the leak (won't matter that there's no water if the shop is disused)
(2)Ring Water Co and see if they have a lead replacement scheme (and if it applies to non-domestic properties). If they have and it does, then fill out an application.
(3)Lay a new pipe out to the highway boundary, get it inspected & connected by Water Co and get rid of the lead altogether.

Just my 2p's worth - hopefully seems like common sense given the timescale for UU to repair their MST.

Failing that, dig a hole down to the pipe on the frontage outside the shop (unless on footpath) and snatch a leadlock and tap on as Dan said.

Softus · 23 Aug 2007

ChrisR said:
Depends how much pipe you have to play with, and why it's sprung a leak. Lead gets attacked by salts from (probably) cement. If you bend an attacked piece of lead pipe it splits, and you see brown edges to the crystalline surface.

Wize words, mate.

Two things which can work, well enough to be able to freeze the pipe, at least, are
1)
<three little sketches>

Chris, I'm curious, do you do those impressive sketches yourself, or do you find them on the 'net?

tapping the pipe. Not hard enough to bend the pipe out of round, but if you put dozens of tiny dents ( a few mm across) in the surface you can re-form the lead enough to stop the leak.

Me too. I've found that a nail set (aka nail punch) is the right size to planish the pipe and make it seal. Light taps, mind!
_________________

BoxBasher said:
What's the point in replacing some of the lead but leaving the most problematic bit underground?

Er, to fix the leak, BB.

...snatch a leadlock...

To make a rare excursion into pedantry, it's a Leadloc™.

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Working at Mains Pressure..?!

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