Approved Contractor- Fire Door Upgrade

[bringthecold]

Fairly standard scenario, loft conversion on a Victorian terrace. Managed to persuade building control that the the existing 4 panel doors can be upgraded to FD20.

Problem is BCO wants FD20 fire resistant quality to be certified by an approved contractor. Who is an approved contractor when it comes to fire door upgrade?

Google isn't throwing up any matches for "approved contractor" & "fire door upgrade". Part B1 of building regs doesn't seem to identify any approved contractor scheme.

Does anyone know what the relevant approved contractor scheme would be?

All the doors are between 37 and 45mm thick, with 10-12mm panels and 25mm jambs. What I propose doing is.

-router 4mm x 10mm intumescent strip into door
-replace ironmongery with fire rated
-install threshold and seal with intumescent caulk.
-remove the panel trim on the "risk" side of the door and cover panels with intumescent paper.
-remove door trim on risk side of the door to ensure plaster edge is upto edge of door liner
-paint risk side of door and door trim with intumescent paint to 30 minute rating.

To me none of these tasks seems technically challenging, it all makes sense and as long as I follow the manufacturer specifications for the intumescent products, I can't see what can be messed up if I tackled this lot myself and would be a fun little project. Thoughts?

What I don't want is 2 kids showing up from some big old contractor with some expensive stickers on their van and have a router running astray on 120 year old doors. Any 1 man band operators in South London?

P.s. I know these arguments are very tied but.....
1- my bedroom door is the only door that ever gets closed...whats the point?
2- victorian house, stripped pine floors throughout with 5mm gap between every floorboard, majority of doors at 90 degrees to floorboards.....whats the point?

 

[^woody^]

As the doors have not been designed or tested to be fire-resistant, then you need to prove it.

To do this you either find some literature from an approved body - BRE, TRADA or some fire related association and do whatever work they specify, or get a contractor in who will do the work and proved a certificate stating compliance

Or you do the work and then get it inspected by a person qualified in fire-safety matters

There is no competent person scheme, but all the BCO wants is some paperwork from a qualified person saying that the doors will conform. That covers the BCO, and then the risk is passed to whoever certifies the doors

Don't forget the door linings too

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Is he saying you must employ a contractor to carry out these works or that the supplier of the products must approve your doors as suitable for upgrade which I understood was the case for these kinds of products?

These kinds of fire door upgrades are down to an individual inspector's discretion as to whether they are accepted or not so at least he is saying that you can upgrade. Often it is cheaper to just buy new doors though, not easy of course if they are non standard.

1 - The point is BC have a responsibility and duty of care to make your house safe, if you do not wish to maintain its safety ie by shutting the doors that becomes your responsibility. They do not make the rules and have to work within the law or they open themselves up to all sorts. Maybe you should start shutting the doors? Not a lecture, I don't shut any of my doors either apart from the kitchen one which I shut religiously at night. Not forgetting of course, should the worst happen and smoke/a fire prevented my escape via the stairs it may be some (small) comfort knowing I could shut the door and get some protection from the flames/smoke whilst I dangle my kids out the window or whatever!

2 - The main killer in fires is smoke and unless you do not have anything beneath the floor joists ie plasterboard or lath and plaster its those valuable seconds/minutes when the alarms go off that enable you to escape and for a small period of time at least the ceiling will prevent you/your nearest and dearest inhaling life debilitating smoke and preventing escape.

 

[bringthecold]

As the doors have not been designed or tested to be fire-resistant, then you need to prove it.

To do this you either find some literature from an approved body - BRE, TRADA or some fire related association and do whatever work they specify, or get a contractor in who will do the work and proved a certificate stating compliance

Or you do the work and then get it inspected by a person qualified in fire-safety matters

There is no competent person scheme, but all the BCO wants is some paperwork from a qualified person saying that the doors will conform. That covers the BCO, and then the risk is passed to whoever certifies the doors

Don't forget the door linings too

Good idea, I'll have a hunt around and see what literature/certification I can get from the companies that manufacture the intumescent paper, paint and hinges. See if I can persuade BCO that if I do work to their specifications it will be up to scratch.

 

[bringthecold]

Is he saying you must employ a contractor to carry out these works or that the supplier of the products must approve your doors as suitable for upgrade which I understood was the case for these kinds of products?

These kinds of fire door upgrades are down to an individual inspector's discretion as to whether they are accepted or not so at least he is saying that you can upgrade. Often it is cheaper to just buy new doors though, not easy of course if they are non standard.

1 - The point is BC have a responsibility and duty of care to make your house safe, if you do not wish to maintain its safety ie by shutting the doors that becomes your responsibility. They do not make the rules and have to work within the law or they open themselves up to all sorts. Maybe you should start shutting the doors? Not a lecture, I don't shut any of my doors either apart from the kitchen one which I shut religiously at night. Not forgetting of course, should the worst happen and smoke/a fire prevented my escape via the stairs it may be some (small) comfort knowing I could shut the door and get some protection from the flames/smoke whilst I dangle my kids out the window or whatever!

2 - The main killer in fires is smoke and unless you do not have anything beneath the floor joists ie plasterboard or lath and plaster its those valuable seconds/minutes when the alarms go off that enable you to escape and for a small period of time at least the ceiling will prevent you/your nearest and dearest inhaling life debilitating smoke and preventing escape.

BCO not saying specifically I need to employ a contractor, just needs to be certified by "approved contractor". I'll talk to him again at first inspection and see if the approved contractor can be a manufacturer. Anybody know of any contractors that specialize in upgrades....and what "approval" they carry.

Good point about floor joists under doors, makes perfect sense as walls need to be supported by joists! Been round with credit card, 2" joists under every door. Will make sure gap between boards filled down to joist with intumescent caulk.

With regards to living with doors open, just the way we live in the house. How do the houses in Grand Designs get away with being entirely open plan apart from glass walls to sit on the thrown! Certainly worth thinking about shutting doors at night if someone is asleep in loft.

Easier and cheaper to buy new doors. In my eyes a crime.

 

[Alarm]

Try these.

http://www.enfielddoors.co.uk/

They should be able to assist.


( Not connected to them in any way)

 

[bringthecold]

Just so anyone reading knows how this turned out. BCO was happy for me to do the upgrade work myself.

Bought paint from Thermoguard, who provided certificate that they provided enough paint for X sqm of timber doors (with minimum thickness of 10mm).

Replaced all the hinges, installed intumescant pad, installed a hardwood threshold bar on each door and installed intumescant/smoke seals around door. The seals are not required for FD20 but I did so as the gap around the doors was fractionally more than thickness in 2p piece in places.

I was very meticulous with the paint. Its 6 coats in total, so I kept a schedule initialling when I did each coat (kept this with Thermoguard Cert and BCO sign-off).

On reflection I would probably go down the route of additional centrally wired smoke alarms, doing the loft we had a lot of electrical work happening anyway. The upgrade was very time consuming and the intumescant paint has yellowed much faster than standard eggshell thats on the non-risk side of door (work was done August 2012).