Building regs / windows

[Doom4D]

I need to replace a window fitted in 1970's that has the joists of a flat roof sitting on top of the frame. A surveyor is telling me that if it was OK in the 1970's (I don't know that it was), then it's OK to replace on the same basis. I'm unconvinced so took counsel from a window fitter who seemed alarmed at this, saying it was unsafe and doesn't meet current standards.

Can anyone bring this debate to a conclusion, preferably by pointing to specific regs?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

No you need a suitable lintel. If you want to do it by the book and you want to DIY then you'll need to contact Building Control and pay their fee to inspect etc, otherwise you could get a Fensa fitter to supply and fit the window who are obliged to fit a suitable lintel in the process, though you may want to give them the hint they need to fit a lintel, though I wouldn't trust a Fensa fitter to walk across the road safely let alone spec a lintel.

 

[DHFrames]

Hi

I think you'll be fine just to replace, obviously go easy when the existing window is taken out. Building regs advise to add a fire escape if its upstairs in a habitable room, this however is not a requirement of the regulations, which simply state that the replacement window must be no worse than those they replace in this respect.
If you get a fensa registered installer to install the the window, the chances of it being checked will be slim, approx 1-3% of installations get checked, we've installed more than 2000 frames and the fensa police have made one visit!!
Shocking is my eyes, a cowboys paradise

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think you'll be fine just to replace, obviously go easy when the existing window is taken out.

So it appears the OP's joists are resting on the head of his timber window and your advice is to just use the next window as the lintel?

 

[DHFrames]

Many windows, especially bay windows have flat roofs above. Do they have lintels.... No! Would I install a lintel if it was my house.... Probably yes. Do these new installations comply if no lintel is fitted..... Most of the time yes.
I just stating the requirement on regs, without pictures and more info its hard to say.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Would I install a lintel if it was my house.... Probably yes.

Yet your advice to the OP is not to do this?

 

[DHFrames]

Freddie in my experience the fensa installer would not be obliged to fit a lintel. The window has already been replaced in the 70's, which covers the installer under the 'not making the window worse than it already is' rule. If it was the existing window being changed for the first time and the joists can be seen resting on the top of the frame then it would be a different matter.
Again without seeing pics etc this is only my view

 

[crank39]

Ah the age old argument...Is a lintel required, yes or no and whos responsible, fitter or customer?

I do believe we still have a female poster who promised to come back with an update after she insisted the company/fitters were responsible for fitting lintels and was taking every man and his dog to court over it, this was a couple of years ago and we're still waiting for the update.

But its a very good subject to debate never the less

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Ah the age old argument...Is a lintel required, yes or no and whos responsible, fitter or customer?

I do believe we still have a female poster who promised to come back with an update after she insisted the company/fitters were responsible for fitting lintels and was taking every man and his dog to court over it, this was a couple of years ago and we're still waiting for the update.

But its a very good subject to debate never the less

Well its not quite the same, my argument here was that Fensa should be at least considering if one is necessary. There is no argument as to whether the customer should pay for said lintel if required. Fensa window fitters do have an obligation to inform you that if in the course of replacing a window in their opinion that the structure may be compromised and as professionals should have the wherewithal to make that call .....

 

[crank39]

In my own experience Fensa have only really been interested in certain aspects of the regulations and whether the install meets them, they generally don't get involed in workmanship issues and have personally known them to sit on the fence and not offer an opinion whether a frame required a lintel or not, they just don't want to get involved.

Its interesting to read that DH frames is of the opinion that so long as you don't make things worse then its ok, this might be correct when it comes to opener sizes and fire escapes but i'm pretty sure roof or floor joists resting on a window and bowing it will not meet regs, its common knowledge that where a timber window could quite happily support a bit of brickwork above a flexible pvc window cannot, this is where IMO you cannot use the 'so long as you don't make things worse' arguement as stated by DHF as you clearly have made things worse if your pvc window starts to bow, this is where the responsibility should fall onto the surveyor firstly and then the fitters to flag up and concerns they have, but it ain't the fault of the installers that you require lintels and it ain't right to demand they fit them as a matter of course, lintels in my 22 years experience have always been extra but i do agree with you that surveyors and fitters need to advise better

 

[DHFrames]

Spot on Crank, common sense must prevail, if its needed its needed, if its not picked up by the surveyor it will certainly be picked up by the fitter who should then take the appropriate steps as mentioned by Freddy