Conservatory

Roo · 16 Dec 2008

As we are in a credit crunch Mrs Roo thought it would be wise to shell out 9 grand on a conservatory and new double glazing.

I wasn't going to bother with any electrics in the conservatory as the ring running around the living room was easily accessible if I needed to plug anything in etc.

But looking out side just now at my half built glorified greenhouse I decided it was very dark and I would need some lighting.

Would the quick drawing below be the way to go if I were to think about some lighting or (as normal) is there a better way?

View media item 6953
I've got to make my mind up sharpish as the plaster's come on Friday and first fix my be a good idea tomorrow.

ban-all-sheds · 16 Dec 2008

If that's where you want the internal and external lights then I guess it's the way to go.

If that isn't where you want them then it may not be.

How are you going to run the cable across the doorway(s) from the house?

And how do wall lights and the cables to them work when the walls are glass?

Roo · 16 Dec 2008

Sorry Ban should have explained better.

It's just a rough diagram that I drew just now after looking out of the window and it's not to scale by any means.

The lights are not in their correct positions.

I just really wanted to know if there was any problems in what I may be planning to do eg anything I may have missed?

I just wanted a second opinion on the basic diagram.

I know part P will apply as it's modifying a circuit but is there anything (electrical wise) I may have over looked.

DESL · 16 Dec 2008

AFAIK conservatory's don't come within the scope of Part P.

This stuff may be useful

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...line_White_Index/Dline_30_30_White/index.html

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...line_White_Index/Dline_30_15_White/index.html

rebuke · 16 Dec 2008

It looks fine to me, as long as you make sure any cables buried in walls (you mentioned having a plasterer in so I assume you're burying some) are in safe zones (basically directly above, below, and horizontally to the sides of an accessory (light switch or light fitting in your case). There are also a few other zones defined, I suspect the wiki has all the details.

The other thing is that if you're burying cables less than 50mm in a wall and not in earthed metal conduit, then the circuit they are on must be protected by an RCD. I also believe (but haven't got the regs to hand to check) that the because you have an outside light that also means the circuit must be RCD'd.

DESL: While the lights in the conservatory wouldn't be notifiable under Part P (all electrical work in a dwelling is within the scope of part P), the outside light fitting is notifiable unfortunately...

DESL · 16 Dec 2008

the outside light fitting is notifiable unfortunately...

I thought if it is fitted to the fabric of the building and no external wiring is carried out notification isn't required but then..... I could be wrong.

sparkyspike · 16 Dec 2008

Have you thought about using floor standing lamps (standard lamps)? You could extend the ring to incorporate a couple of extra sockets in the conservatory. Or, if you prefer to use a lightswitch as you enter the room, you could put in 2A lighting sockets. This will give you alot of flexibility - i.e. you can have a standard lamp where there is a window, but wall lights only where you have wallspace.

Is the ring on an RCD at the moment?

rebuke · 16 Dec 2008

DESL said:
I thought if it is fitted to the fabric of the building and no external wiring is carried out notification isn't required but then..... I could be wrong.

Schedule 2B defines:

"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, an outdoor lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[14];

It's an outdoor lighting installation, so as far as I know that makes it notifiable. There doesn't appear to be anything in there talking about whether it's fitted to the fabric of the building and external wiring or whatever...

Roo · 17 Dec 2008

Very useful stuff thank you all very much.

Yup gonna extend the ring anyway as where the sockets are in the lounge thats easy enough.

I have a TNCS supply and a 63A 30ma RCD.

Is the 63A RCD ok or should it be upgraded to an 80A I know it's only a couple of extra sockets but just a thought.

Did think off stand up lamps and in fact did look at just that at the weekend for the lounge but mrs Roo didn't see any she liked so would have the same problem again here.

I did have an outside PIR light but had to remove it for the fitters today as it was in the way of the frame.

This was a spur FCU off the ring upstairs so just removed the spur.

I SAW THAT THE T and E WAS DAMAGED SO I'M OK TO RENEW SAID CABLE (with a longer piece) and REPLACE LIKE FOR LIKE THE LAMP THAT WAS REMOVED am I not?

As for the internal lights nice to know this can be done with out notification under Part P.

I will be keeping to the safe zones with my cables and I am still ok to use metal capping against brick aren't I?

DESL · 17 Dec 2008

am still ok to use metal capping against brick aren't I?

Or PVC capping or oval conduit the only purpose it serves is to prevent damage by plasterers trowel

Roo · 17 Dec 2008

Thank you.

rebuke · 17 Dec 2008

Roo said:
I SAW THAT THE T and E WAS DAMAGED SO I'M OK TO RENEW SAID CABLE (with a longer piece) and REPLACE LIKE FOR LIKE THE LAMP THAT WAS REMOVED am I not?

None of that should need notification under Part P in my opinion, as it's covered in schedule 2B with:

Work consisting of -
(a) replacing any fixed electrical equipment which does not include the provision of—
(i) any new fixed cabling; or

(ii) a consumer unit;

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

Removing and refitting the light fiting itself is covered under (a), since you're not providing a 'new' fixed cable (new in the sense of one that didn't exist before, even though it's actually a newer piece of cable than the original one), and replacing the cable is covered under (b)...

(Note these are just my interpretations however, while I would think it unlikely, your LABC may interpret them differently...)

Roo · 17 Dec 2008

rebuke said:
(Note these are just my interpretations however, while I would think it unlikely, your LABC may interpret them differently...)

Mine too thats why I wrote it in Caps

ban-all-sheds · 17 Dec 2008

rebuke said:
DESL said:

I thought if it is fitted to the fabric of the building and no external wiring is carried out notification isn't required but then..... I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

Schedule 2B defines:

"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, an outdoor lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[14];

Click to expand...

It's an outdoor lighting installation, so as far as I know that makes it notifiable. There doesn't appear to be anything in there talking about whether it's fitted to the fabric of the building and external wiring or whatever...

That's quite correct, but Approved Document P says:

The installation of equipment attached to the
outside wall of a house (for example security
lighting, air conditioning equipment and radon
fans) is not notifiable provided that there are
no exposed outdoor connections and the
work does not involve the installation of a
new circuit or the extension of a circuit in a
kitchen or special location or associated with
a special installation.

That appears to be incorrect, but it would be churlish to refuse to take that advice - I wouldn't think much of anyone's chances of taking any action against someone who had followed Government guidance, even if it was incorrect...

rebuke · 17 Dec 2008

The end of that sentence does say provided that it does not involve the installation of a new or extension of a circuit associated with a special installation, and also the doc says:

"Outdoor lighting and power installations are special installations"

So it would seem there is an error in that the doc shouldn't suggest security lighting as an example, but I would read it as still being clear that anything associated with a special installation is notifiable...

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Conservatory

sparkyspike

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