How easy is it to replace a CU/do a rewire?

LiamPope · 5 May 2009

ban-all-sheds said:
LiamPope said:

Perhaps people should just be told straightforwardly that these jobs are highly involved and that it would be irresponsible for anybody here to hand-walk them through the job, spoon-feeding them information.

Click to expand...

Yeah - that always works.

It would work on those DIYers who are inclined to learn what they need to learn. But then they are not the people asking naive questions like this thread title in the first place. So we're really talking about just the idiot DIYers who get arsey when they're not spoon-fed info and insist they'll carry on anyway. I dare say for those people, your questions approach will be as ineffective as you think my suggestion would be. Same result. Why bother?

dextrous · 5 May 2009

If I wanted to save paying an electrician, then the legal options would appear to be either to work with one to save labour time regarding cable runs etc, to involve the joys of liaising with the LABC, or to spend a couple of grand and a long while training as an electrician.

The real problem, as the opening questions in this thread imply, is that people really don't know what they don't know. On the plus side, this forum indicates that at least they're prepared to ask.

ban-all-sheds · 5 May 2009

dextrous said:
The real problem, as the opening questions in this thread imply, is that people really don't know what they don't know.

Yo - the old "unknown unknowns" problem - again a concept that's not always welcome.

So is the consensus that a list of q's in the Wiki headed - "If you cannot answer these then you should not do the job" is pointless?

ColJack · 5 May 2009

as the list of questions stand now, it just seems like a scare tactic to get them to call a pro..

especially the long wordedness of some of the questions..

as pointed out, most people won't even know what the question is asking for, nevermind if they can answer it or not..

don't get me wrong BAS, I like the idea of a "knowledge checklist" so to speak, but even in reading your first post, my first mental reply was

is this a genuine post aimed at being helpful, or just a veiled "you're not good enough to do this, now go away and stop bothering me" thread..

( not a personal pop at you BAS, I feel that way to sometimes. )

dextrous · 5 May 2009

ban-all-sheds said:
So is the consensus that a list of q's in the Wiki headed - "If you cannot answer these then you should not do the job" is pointless?

Unfortunately, I suspect it is - partly because the questions answered by you boys indicates that people don't bother referring to the wiki anyway. On the other hand, this forum is a good place for you professionals to clarify, enhance and extend your own knowledge base, so don't knock it. Finally, if you have the opportunity to prevent or change a DIYer from doing something that kills him/herself, then that's a laudable thing in itself.

oharaf · 5 May 2009

dextrous said:
I have the answer to all your questions - ignore all professional advice and blithely carry on regardless. Then get a periodical, claiming than some irish bloke who said he was qualified did it, but mysteriously has disappeared off the face of the earth.

I personally find this rather offensive!! Why should it be an 'Irish Bloke' when there are just as many offenders in plenty of other nationalities including the English and including some of those who can be found at www.competentperson.co.uk

Only the other day I was called by a former college mate who holds exactly the same qualifications as myself who did not have a feeckin clue about what he was doing and he was only adding a light to a circuit!!!!!!

BAS idea is spot on, but pathetic comments degrade the excellent advice many people post on here

ColJack · 5 May 2009

I've yet to meet a gypo that didn't have an Irish twang to his voice..

neighbour of moms had one come and fit some new fence panels..
me and my dad then spent an hour and a half on sunday trying to fix the damn cheap things in... they'd just wedged them between the existing wooden posts.. no nails or screws to be seen anywhere..

6 panels can't have cost them more than a tenner total too.. crappy things..

dextrous · 5 May 2009

oharaf said:
dextrous said:

I have the answer to all your questions - ignore all professional advice and blithely carry on regardless. Then get a periodical, claiming than some irish bloke who said he was qualified did it, but mysteriously has disappeared off the face of the earth.

Click to expand...

I personally find this rather offensive!!

Oh dear

oharaf said:
Why should it be an 'Irish Bloke' when there are just as many offenders in plenty of other nationalities including the English and including some of those who can be found at www.competentperson.co.uk

This is called humour, in case you were unaware.

oharaf said:
Only the other day I was called by a former college mate who holds exactly the same qualifications as myself who did not have a feeckin clue about what he was doing and he was only adding a light to a circuit!!!!!!

I think he'd find THIS rather offensive

oharaf said:
BAS idea is spot on,

in theory, but my point is that it is doomed to fail

oharaf said:
but pathetic comments degrade the excellent advice many people post on here

like your paranoid claptrap

Try to read between the lines and catch the underlying message - if you read the rest of the thread you'd see there was a point to what I was saying. In short, making it sound too complex will make people afraid to ask or just ignore advice from what they perceive to be a closed-ranks mentality

sparkyspike · 5 May 2009

...which BAS pointed out in the initial post. Putting a list of 'did you knows' on the wiki, outlining what is required to complete a CU change is definitely a good idea. It may help discourage DIY CU changes. On the other hand, it may, as already said, scare DIYers away from asking for some useful advice.

The difference though, is that most electrical jobs can be explained and 'talked through'. A CU change is not one of these jobs. Not for most people anyway.

dextrous · 5 May 2009

Surely it would be better to amend the wiki6 to state that this is not a job for a diy'er due to the legalities and many complexities of testing and safe installation, and should not be attempted without training and LABC approval. Therefore any questions relating to this on the forum are highly unlikely to be responded to.

The trouble with a checklist is that a diy'er may look these up and think (s)he is now capable of doing it safely.

ban-all-sheds · 5 May 2009

dextrous said:
Surely it would be better to amend the wiki6 to state that this is not a job for a diy'er due to the legalities and many complexities of testing and safe installation, and should not be attempted without training and LABC approval. Therefore any questions relating to this on the forum are highly unlikely to be responded to.

The DIYDoctor website already exists.

The trouble with a checklist is that a diy'er may look these up and think (s)he is now capable of doing it safely.

I think that if anyone who is genuinely wanting to find out how to do things properly looks up all that info they would come to realise how much is involved, and how much they didn't know, and behave responsibly.

dextrous · 5 May 2009

All in all, we're in agreement that providing a caveat in the wiki is a worthwhile thing. Am just querying (as a non-electrician myself) how complex it needs to be to make the point.

ColJack · 6 May 2009

it's not so much making a point...

all of the questions asked are valid ones that need answering before someone has the right information and equipment to do the job properly and safely..

sm1thson · 6 May 2009

13) Do you understand what a shared neutral is, why it is dangerous, why it will cause nuisance tripping after adding RCDs and how to overcome these problems?

ban-all-sheds · 6 May 2009

Col is right - it's not trying to make a point at all, other than the genuinely justifiable one of you really do need to be able to answer these, and if you can't then you really aren't competent enough.

But the questions should all be genuine and 100% relevant to the job, not designed to frighten people for the sake of it, or demonstrate superiority for the sake of it etc.

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How easy is it to replace a CU/do a rewire?

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