I don't have enough hair to warrant mechanical drying aids 
Anyway. I couldn't possibly imagine to what you are inferring...
Anyway. I couldn't possibly imagine to what you are inferring...
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- Thread starter VanSolo
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Not even on your a**e?
Actually, don't answer that - I don't want to know...
Wouldn't that be a bit odd though?
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Don't they have spirit levels in Germany?Close up on the socket:
They do but try getting a tiler to use one...
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I would say the drain means nothing it is common to have drains in commercial premises for cleaning down.
The window does not seem to be frosted in any way which would may one think the device could not be used as a shower.
But then we look at the loo which also one would expect to find in a room without transparent glass! Maybe designed special for camera so they can be positioned far enough away!
So however BAS shouts the odds it's not cut and dried and one has to consider what the real use is for the room. Is loo for use as a loo or is it handy disposal unit as often used with Elson disposal points!
I see some notices on the wall but can't read them which leads me to believe this is not a house but commercial premises.
I have seen in many hotels abroad sockets in shower and bathrooms and also sockets where the plugs can be reversed and flex well below the 16A rating required for the plug fitted. As we know imported equipment has to have UK plugs fitted to be sold in UK and although there is a move to harmonisation this is still a long way off. So reference to EU is not really valid.
However closer to home we have the "Electrical Safety Council" publishing on their web site how one can change a consumer unit in premises where there are no earths on the lighting circuits which reading the 17th Edition one would think is not allowed.
Reading best practice guide 4 I would say the socket is not closer than 0.6m from boundary of zone 1 so it is NOT code 1.
Although it does not make it plain as to if code 2 or 4 should be given. It does repeatedly refer to risk assessment and being realistic this is the only method and you have to forget the regulations as it does not fall into any pre-defined slot. You have to make a written risk assessment and consider if there is any risk.
So if the same socket was mounted on an outside wall would you condemn it as some fool may use it when it is raining. Likely answer is no as no one is considered to be so foolish and if they did then they would be unlikely to be naked as could be viewed by people passing so the RCD would likely trip before any irreversible damage was caused.
Would the same apply to the socket in question. Likely answer is yes with a window unfrosted people are unlikely to be naked and there is no more risk than using same socket outside.
So you would need to state that you have considered that the room has been subject to change of use and as such the socket is permitted but issue a warning that should the room be returned to being used as a shower room then the socket will need removing. And suggest that either a cupboard be built around the socket with a lock on it so the plug can't be handled or the socket is replaced with a suitable fuse connection unit.
But do make out a risk assessment and do get owner to sign a copy to say this is how they also see it.
The window does not seem to be frosted in any way which would may one think the device could not be used as a shower.
But then we look at the loo which also one would expect to find in a room without transparent glass! Maybe designed special for camera so they can be positioned far enough away!
So however BAS shouts the odds it's not cut and dried and one has to consider what the real use is for the room. Is loo for use as a loo or is it handy disposal unit as often used with Elson disposal points!
I see some notices on the wall but can't read them which leads me to believe this is not a house but commercial premises.
I have seen in many hotels abroad sockets in shower and bathrooms and also sockets where the plugs can be reversed and flex well below the 16A rating required for the plug fitted. As we know imported equipment has to have UK plugs fitted to be sold in UK and although there is a move to harmonisation this is still a long way off. So reference to EU is not really valid.
However closer to home we have the "Electrical Safety Council" publishing on their web site how one can change a consumer unit in premises where there are no earths on the lighting circuits which reading the 17th Edition one would think is not allowed.
Reading best practice guide 4 I would say the socket is not closer than 0.6m from boundary of zone 1 so it is NOT code 1.
Although it does not make it plain as to if code 2 or 4 should be given. It does repeatedly refer to risk assessment and being realistic this is the only method and you have to forget the regulations as it does not fall into any pre-defined slot. You have to make a written risk assessment and consider if there is any risk.
So if the same socket was mounted on an outside wall would you condemn it as some fool may use it when it is raining. Likely answer is no as no one is considered to be so foolish and if they did then they would be unlikely to be naked as could be viewed by people passing so the RCD would likely trip before any irreversible damage was caused.
Would the same apply to the socket in question. Likely answer is yes with a window unfrosted people are unlikely to be naked and there is no more risk than using same socket outside.
So you would need to state that you have considered that the room has been subject to change of use and as such the socket is permitted but issue a warning that should the room be returned to being used as a shower room then the socket will need removing. And suggest that either a cupboard be built around the socket with a lock on it so the plug can't be handled or the socket is replaced with a suitable fuse connection unit.
But do make out a risk assessment and do get owner to sign a copy to say this is how they also see it.
The shower head reaches within 0.4m of the socket, in MY best practice guide it is a code 1.
Either the shower or the socket has to go.
It is a horrible attempt to convert a shower room into a hairdressing room.
I don't see why the job couldn't have been done properlyby removing the toilet, blanking off the shower and using the other sink in the room for washing hair. Fit a shelf and fix the mirror above it. Not a huge expense.
I have been unable to find out who fitted the socket as it has been fitted quite recently and would love to see the EIC.
No no no no no.
It doesn't matter what the room was originally supposed to be for, or what it is for now. There's nothing in 701 about that, just "Locations containing a bath or shower".
It doesn't matter if a shower was installed as a less-than-ideal appliance for carrying out some other task - there's nothing in 701 about that, just "Locations containing a bath or shower".
It's a room, and it has a shower in it.
End of.
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I found the following on a job in Sheffield.
It was a kitchen, with a shower cubicle in it. Opposite the cubicle is the CU.
Another dilemma of how to code it. I just left a notice condemning the whole installation in that room.
It was a kitchen, with a shower cubicle in it. Opposite the cubicle is the CU.
Another dilemma of how to code it. I just left a notice condemning the whole installation in that room.
that CU looks to be more than 600mm from the cubical.. so it's outside of zone 2 and technically allowed..
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The 17th Edition does not define a Shower. It would have been "A fall or rain or hail of short duration; sometimes, but rarely, a like fall of snow." which would mean anything fitted outside would have same problems as things fitted inside with an artificial shower.
However rather than getting bogged down in meaning one needs to look what is safe and what is not safe and in this case to do that you need to consider how people will be dressed while in the room.
Other than the loo which may not be provided as a loo but as some form of waist disposal everything seems to point to people being fully dressed with a window with no curtain or other visible means to make it private.
In the same way as "The socket-outlet of a circuit supplying such equipment and the control device of such equipment shall have a notice in order to warn the user that this equipment shall be used only when the swimming pool is not occupied by persons." A notice can also be fixed in this room. It as it stands is not a shower as referred to in section 701.
However it is not my call and if it was then I will accept I have to decide on how to class it however in this case "VanSolo" has to decide and if he thinks it is used as a shower he is within his rights to give it a code 2.
If the question was not from a tradesman I would treat it in a different light but he has 3 options.
1) Walk away and say I don't want the job.
2) Pass it.
3) Fail in and say what must be done before he can pass it.
So lets consider 3) and lets now turn ourselves to what needs to be done before it can pass and I will consider some options.
1) Move the plumbing to be over hair washing sink.
2) Block up drain.
3) Put socket in a locked box.
4) Replace socket with FCU.
5) Remove loo.
So forget if it's OK or not lets have what you would all require to be done before giving clean bill of health.
I will plumb for 3) Put socket in a locked box.
But nothing negative that does not help you know they need power and it would be permitted in a normal hairdressers so what needs to be done to permit it?
However rather than getting bogged down in meaning one needs to look what is safe and what is not safe and in this case to do that you need to consider how people will be dressed while in the room.
Other than the loo which may not be provided as a loo but as some form of waist disposal everything seems to point to people being fully dressed with a window with no curtain or other visible means to make it private.
In the same way as "The socket-outlet of a circuit supplying such equipment and the control device of such equipment shall have a notice in order to warn the user that this equipment shall be used only when the swimming pool is not occupied by persons." A notice can also be fixed in this room. It as it stands is not a shower as referred to in section 701.
However it is not my call and if it was then I will accept I have to decide on how to class it however in this case "VanSolo" has to decide and if he thinks it is used as a shower he is within his rights to give it a code 2.
If the question was not from a tradesman I would treat it in a different light but he has 3 options.
1) Walk away and say I don't want the job.
2) Pass it.
3) Fail in and say what must be done before he can pass it.
So lets consider 3) and lets now turn ourselves to what needs to be done before it can pass and I will consider some options.
1) Move the plumbing to be over hair washing sink.
2) Block up drain.
3) Put socket in a locked box.
4) Replace socket with FCU.
5) Remove loo.
So forget if it's OK or not lets have what you would all require to be done before giving clean bill of health.
I will plumb for 3) Put socket in a locked box.
But nothing negative that does not help you know they need power and it would be permitted in a normal hairdressers so what needs to be done to permit it?
Eric, I have answered your question in my previous post.
I gave it a code 1 not code 2.
If I can use the " Would you want that in your house" analogy.
I go to my mother's house and she says " look at the socket I've had fitted by this bloke, It's in the bathroom so I can use my hairdryer in there. It's got a cover on it so no water gets in , good eh?"
What do you think I would do?
I gave it a code 1 not code 2.
If I can use the " Would you want that in your house" analogy.
I go to my mother's house and she says " look at the socket I've had fitted by this bloke, It's in the bathroom so I can use my hairdryer in there. It's got a cover on it so no water gets in , good eh?"
What do you think I would do?
you can't mix and match regs eric.. quoting a reg that pertains to a different special location and trying to say it's ok in a shower room is rediculous..
the regs in section clearly state that any socket outlets MUST be 3M horizontally from the edge of zone 1.. and that is no where near that far away..
it's a location containing a shower.. it doesn't matter how you mix it, it's still a sower.. you can still get naked in there and have a shower if you so choose.
the regs in section clearly state that any socket outlets MUST be 3M horizontally from the edge of zone 1.. and that is no where near that far away..
it's a location containing a shower.. it doesn't matter how you mix it, it's still a sower.. you can still get naked in there and have a shower if you so choose.
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VanSolo has given it Code 1 so that's the end. No point in continuing.
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