chase concrete ceiling for 1mm csa lighting?

ban-all-sheds · 11 Oct 2009

RF is right, even allowing for his unnatural desires.

LV luminaires, not ELV, to reduce the current draw, pyro p-clipped to the ceiling and plastered over.

mgx · 11 Oct 2009

MICC appears too complicated for me. I may need to run it conduit with boxing around it. Will figure it out now that I have a lot more information to hand.

flameport · 11 Oct 2009

Line the ceiling with plasterboard. It's really the only sensible option with concrete ceilings. (unless you want the wires to be visible).

1john · 11 Oct 2009

D shaped trunking???????????? white, no edges to cast shadow, can always acess cables, easy to remove or alter in the future, conventional, convenient.

mgx · 11 Oct 2009

Had the plasterboarding discussion already ... good idea in general, but won't work for me, other than bathrooms. Generally there are no wires in the ceiling anywhere with three exceptions: (1) fire detectors that need to be ~30cm to 50cm away from the wall (solution: run the alarm cable buried in the plaster, not ideal, but appears best trade off), (b) suspended dining room lights (not sure on solution yet), (c) a kitchen bulkhead (probably short run of boxing), (d) bathrooms (plasterboard). The entire flat has full height doors (other than bathrooms). Can't justify plasterboarding the entire flat just for these exceptions.

sparkwright · 11 Oct 2009

what about

chasing out the 5 mm of plaster, running appropriate cables and reskimming the entire ceiling, maybe twice.

using the already suggested D shaped trunking or similar, but get loads and arrange it on the ceiling in some sort of ornate plasterwork grid pattern and paint over. or would that look naff? get ready to count the naff replies.

electronicsuk · 11 Oct 2009

An alternative get out of jail card would be high current flat speaker cable with your ELV lighting, the sort of thing designed for running under carpets. Either that, or multiple conductors in parallel to reduce VD. They still all sound like botches to avoid creating a false ceiling, though.

ban-all-sheds · 11 Oct 2009

Does the Sale Of Goods Act apply to property?

mgx · 11 Oct 2009

What is it with false ceilings? I don't need a false ceiling! You guys must be builders

. All I need is a proper solution ...

electronicsuk · 11 Oct 2009

mgx said:
What is it with false ceilings? I don't need a false ceiling! You guys must be builders . All I need is a proper solution ...

That's the problem - there appears to be no other proper solution, other than the ones that will look naff. The closest thing so far has been the suggestion of pyro, but you've already ruled that out, which doesn't leave a lot!

sparkwright · 11 Oct 2009

are you certain there are no disused conduits already hidden in the ceiling? do all the flats just have wall lights then?

ban-all-sheds · 11 Oct 2009

mgx said:
Sure, in general - but this is low voltage alarm cable, surely not a problem for a short run, it's sheathed to the top of the wall, but stripped back for 30-50cm out to a fire detector. It's not ideal, but under the circumstances (the alternative being to have some visible cable across a ceiling) it doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff. What negative consequences should I expect?

Non compliance with the Wiring Regulations.

OK - there is no law explicitly requiring compliance, but there is a de facto requirement via the Building Regulations mandating reasonable provision for safety etc, as by far and away the most realistic way to comply with P1 is to work to BS 7671, and regulation 521.10.1 requires all unsheathed cables, even alarm ones, to be in conduit, ducting or trunking.

Sure, 1.24mm csa. Max cable length, 5m (probably a bit less). Calcs tell me drop is about 0.826. Do you agree?

No - like RF, I make it 2.31V.

mgx · 11 Oct 2009

sparkwright said:
are you certain there are no disused conduits already hidden in the ceiling? do all the flats just have wall lights then?

No, standard 1970s concrete pylon, concrete ceilings/floors, breeze block walls. Concrete all round. All existing lights are wall or sockets (round pin).

I've got some good input from this thread (though I'm not sure about that cross hatch D trunking idea, but I'll see what the wife thinks ...) and will need to digest it to figure out best solution.

And BAS point taken ... will even leave the alarm cable in its sheath and just build the plaster up around it so the gradient isn't noticable.

ban-all-sheds · 11 Oct 2009

mgx said:
What is it with false ceilings?

What it is is the only realistic way to conceal cables up there.

mgx said:
I don't need a false ceiling!

You do if you want to conceal cables up there.

mgx said:
ceiling height is only 2.4m.

mgx said:
The entire flat has full height doors (other than bathrooms).

You've got 2.4m doorways?

My house has 1.96m ones, with 2.45m ceilings - I don't see how, say, 2.35m ceilings would be so appalling as to make cables visibly clipped to the ceiling look better.

Can't justify plasterboarding the entire flat just for these exceptions.

Then learn to like seeing cables clipped to the ceiling - you have no alternative.

mgx said:
You guys must be builders . All I need is a proper solution ...

A proper solution?

I can offer you 3

Lower the ceilings enough to be able to conceal cables up there.
Learn to like seeing cables clipped to the surface of your ceilings.
Sell the flat and buy somewhere without solid concrete ceilings.

1john · 11 Oct 2009

the best way is to drop the ceiling, conduit could look good for that 'industrial' look. MICC is very good cable, unsure if a DIY'er could terminate it easily also it would cast a shadow. D profile trunking seems a good option to me.

When you come to sell this place, if a PIR is done then someone is going to be scratching their head about what you have installed, will probibally be so unsure of your unconvential methods that they will deem the installation to be unsatisfactory.

Why not bite the bullet and batten and board the ceilings, think of all the other services you could conceal

it would be fairly inexpensive if you did it all yourself, you dont even need to get a plasterer, you can tape and joint it yourself.

Interested to know what you decide on.

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chase concrete ceiling for 1mm csa lighting?

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