Spurs on a radial

cwvxr · 19 Nov 2010

Hi,

Just a question on spurs on radials. I currently have a radial circuit (20A CB and 2.5mm) that supplies kitchen sockets, 1 socket in the bedroom above and 1 socket in the hallway (wierd i know, i didnt do it!)

Anyway, i would like to spur another socket in the bedroom above, I was going to spur from the exisiting one in there. However this on is supplying the socket in the hall (only 1 cable in back of socket) so my question is, could the one in the bedroom be a spur and that the hall is a spur of that (spur of a spur), or is the hall one the last socket on the radial? How can i find out?

Thanks for your help,
Chris.

skenk · 19 Nov 2010

Do you have another socket circuit? TBH 20A for kitchen sockets is pretty inadequate so this circuit shouldn't really be extended.

cwvxr · 19 Nov 2010

skenk said:
Do you have another socket circuit? TBH 20A for kitchen sockets is pretty inadequate so this circuit shouldn't really be extended.

I do, however its the next door bedroom (our 2 year olds) and It has all been decorated and fitted with new carpets etc. i didnt think ahead, doh!

PrinceofDarkness · 19 Nov 2010

Chris, you seem to be confusing spurs-off-spurs with ring circuits and radials.

An extension to a properly protected radial circuit may be taken from any convenient point in that circuit, provided that that branch is capable of doing so. Such circuits don't have to be sequential or 'daisy-chain', They can be "tree" or "star" configuration,

Lucia

skenk · 19 Nov 2010

Is there a socket on the kids' side of the dividing wall? If there is you could drill through directly behind that socket and make the mess in the room you are adding the socket, don't forget to respect the safe zones rules though.

cwvxr · 19 Nov 2010

skenk";p="1805562 said:
Is there a socket on the kids' side of the dividing wall? If there is you could drill through directly behind that socket and make the mess in the room you are adding the socket, don't forget to respect the safe zones rules though.[/quot

Unfortunatly not. However I did pull up a floor board in the bedroom that I need a socket in and it could be possible the ring goes downstairs from the kids bedroom using the same route.

However Princeofdarkness advises that i could spur from what could be a spur supplying a spur.

PrinceofDarkness · 19 Nov 2010

cwvxr: Why are you now going on about 'rings', when you clearly said in your o/p that this is a radial circuit?

Lucia.

cwvxr · 19 Nov 2010

PrinceofDarkness said:
cwvxr: Why are you now going on about 'rings', when you clearly said in your o/p that this is a radial circuit?

Lucia.

Sorry i understand what you mean now. Basically if the bedroom socket is the 2nd to last then I can spur from it or if it is a spur from a radial then supplying another socket i can still spur from it?

EDIT - I mentioned ring as another poster said take a spur from a ring as the radial was at its max in terms of appliances it supplies etc. So I said i could possibly break into a ring circuit which comes in from the next bedroom under the floorboards. read all my posts.

PrinceofDarkness · 19 Nov 2010

"Read all my posts"?

Sorry dear, I don't have the time or inclination to read all of anyone's posts. I tend to disuss the issues in the current topic.

If you have a radial circuit, then you can extend it from any point, subject to a certain floor area and coordindation of the cable size and protection device.

Lucia.

ajrobb · 19 Nov 2010

As a novice, a radial circuit has branches and not spurs. A 20A radial circuit can have any number of branches feeding as many sockets as you like as long as the floor area served is less than 50m². What you suggest might well be legal.

skenk · 19 Nov 2010

Bad practice if you ask me, If the 20A circuit wasn't supplying the kitchen it would be fine but seeing as it is, an alternative should be found if possible. Assuming normal kitchen power requirements it would not comply with regs.

cwvxr · 20 Nov 2010

skenk said:
Bad practice if you ask me, If the 20A circuit wasn't supplying the kitchen it would be fine but seeing as it is, an alternative should be found if possible. Assuming normal kitchen power requirements it would not comply with regs.

Forgot to mention. The washing machine is in the garage on another circuit.
Kitchen has usually a kettle plugged in, microwave and toaster, fridge and freezer, dishwasher and oven extractor fan (obviously not used all at once)
oh and under cabinet ligthing from FCU's. Only been in this house since 2008. Had an inspection done and had new consumer fitted with RCD's etc.

So I think ill take another feed from the socket in the bedroom. Socket in hall never used really anyway. And the socket im feeding from is in a place where i dont think it will be used, hence me putting another in.

Thanks,
Chris.

EDIT - found the regs here http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...8.cfm?type=pdf

skenk · 20 Nov 2010

Kitchen circuit is overloaded IMO. You won't get nuisance tripping in the middle of the night but i'm surprised you haven't had it happen already when you've been using the kitchen, or do you have to watch what you're turning on at the same time?

cwvxr said:
EDIT - found the regs here http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...8.cfm?type=pdf[/QUOTE]
'page not found'

is this what you're looking for?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/IEE-Wiring-Regulations-17th-explanatory/dp/0863418449

ajrobb · 20 Nov 2010

skenk said:
Kitchen circuit is overloaded IMO.

I agree. Rough estimate: 10A kettle + 10A dishwasher + 5A toaster + 5A microwave, I'd want a 32A kitchen circuit and have the freezer on a different circuit. A typical bedside light and clock radio aren't going to make a big difference though.

cwvxr · 20 Nov 2010

skenk said:
Kitchen circuit is overloaded IMO. You won't get nuisance tripping in the middle of the night but i'm surprised you haven't had it happen already when you've been using the kitchen, or do you have to watch what you're turning on at the same time?

cwvxr said:

EDIT - found the regs here http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wir...8.cfm?type=pdf[/QUOTE]
'page not found'

is this what you're looking for?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/IEE-Wiring-Regulations-17th-explanatory/dp/0863418449[/QUOTE]

Never had a trip yet. I too was suprised at the kitchen being on a 20A.

Click to expand...

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Spurs on a radial

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