Unbelievable

joinerjohn · 23 Mar 2011

I went to look at a job yesterday. The owner of the building had gutted it and on the second floor, had installed an RSJ about 15ft long from an external wall to a single brick internal wall. He asked me if the RSJ was alright as it only had 75mm bearing on the internal brick wall. Another joiner had placed a 75mmx50mm piece of wood below and up tight to the RSJ and drilled and plugged it to the wall, in an attempt to provide a larger bearing for the RSJ.
I told him I didn't think BCO would accept it as it was, and he told me , he wasn't involving them on the job as the work was all internal.

The RSJ is about 270mm deep.

geraint · 23 Mar 2011

joinerjohn said:
I went to look at a job yesterday. The owner of the building had gutted it and on the second floor, had installed an RSJ about 15ft long from an external wall to a single brick internal wall. He asked me if the RSJ was alright as it only had 75mm bearing on the internal brick wall. Another joiner had placed a 75mmx50mm piece of wood below and up tight to the RSJ and drilled and plugged it to the wall, in an attempt to provide a larger bearing for the RSJ.
I told him I didn't think BCO would accept it as it was, and he told me , he wasn't involving them on the job as the work was all internal.
The RSJ is about 270mm deep.

so what is the problem...

^woody^ · 23 Mar 2011

geraint said:
so what is the problem...

He didn't get the job

joinerjohn · 23 Mar 2011

Well, Would you not query a job where major structural alterations are being done to a 3 storey building (forgot to mention that) and BCO are not involved?
Are you happy with an RSJ resting on only 3" bearings and a bit of wood?
I for one wouldn't be happy with that situation. Have you ever worked on a building where BCO isn't involved in major alterations to the structure of the building?

^woody^ · 24 Mar 2011

Well the client may just be naive and been given some bad previous advice which does happen.

Or he may be a dodgy cost and corner cutter - in which case it's best to stay well away

As for building control not being involved, well I've worked on lots of small jobs were they should have been involved but were not. However the crucial thing is that the work was being supervised and everything was being done correctly.

RonnyRaygun · 24 Mar 2011

It does sound like there's a possibility he's being naive.

After all, it's just as likely, if not more so, that BC would need to be involved where the work is internal.

Maybe he's getting BC mixed up with Planning as people often do.

joinerjohn · 24 Mar 2011

The chap most certainly isn't getting BC mixed up with Planning. A few years ago, he had an extension done to the building and does know the planning and BC processes. From what I saw of the alterations he has done, I'd have thought that BC would and should be involved. As I'm just a lowly joiner, I wouldn't know about building regs would I?

RonnyRaygun · 24 Mar 2011

It'll come back and bite him on the bum when he sells up...

geraint · 24 Mar 2011

joinerjohn said:
The chap most certainly isn't getting BC mixed up with Planning. A few years ago, he had an extension done to the building and does know the planning and BC processes. From what I saw of the alterations he has done, I'd have thought that BC would and should be involved. As I'm just a lowly joiner, I wouldn't know about building regs would I?

so do not look anymore...

joinerjohn · 24 Mar 2011

I didn't Geraint. Decided against this one. The steelwork alone looks quite dodgy and other joiners have already walked away. I just wondered what others thought of the steel being supported the way it was, by the 75mm bearing and 3"x2" timber.

Deluks · 25 Mar 2011

joinerjohn said:
He asked me if the RSJ was alright as it only had 75mm bearing on the internal brick wall.

Never mind building control, you know it's not right, tell him as a professional, that he seeks the advice of a structural engineer, emphasise the dire consequences that could arise if he doesn't, and then you can walk away and sleep soundly at night if it all comes down on his head.

The 3x2 might've been put there temp to set the height of the beam whilst it was being packed up.

joinerjohn · 25 Mar 2011

He told me the 3"x2" was put there after the steel had been installed, as he queried the amount of bearing the steel had. I told him when I saw it, that I didn't think it was right and that the BCO might have some issues with it. That's when he told me that BC were not involved and he wouldn't be involving them at all.

alittlerespect · 25 Mar 2011

Hi

The only problem joinerjohn is going to have is when it comes to selling the property as he will not have any Building Certification for all the modifications that he has done to the property and any worldly wise buyer will want to see the certification before they buy, and if there is no certification then joinerjohn will have one major headache on his shoulders!

Regards

joinerjohn · 25 Mar 2011

alittlerespect said:
Hi

The only problem joinerjohn is going to have is when it comes to selling the property as he will not have any Building Certification for all the modifications that he has done to the property and any worldly wise buyer will want to see the certification before they buy, and if there is no certification then joinerjohn will have one major headache on his shoulders!

Regards

Hmmmmmm, obviously not read my original post then. As the building isn't mine, I'll have no problem, so to speak and therefore no headache either.

alittlerespect · 26 Mar 2011

Hummm!

I assume that as a considerate builder you advised your Client accordingly, in order that they may have the opportunity to avoid such a situation as I have described at a future date!

If you did advice your Client and they chose to ignore such advice then the situation may come back to haunt them at a later date.

Regards

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