Designed to fail....

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When the Honeywell v4073 rests in the mid position or in the A position (CH) it draws a current to hold against the spring and gets very hot.

Seems to me that if Honeywell designed these valves to rest in the B position the motors wouldn't burn out so frequently.
 
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When the Honeywell v4073 rests in the mid position or in the A position (CH) it draws a current to hold against the spring and gets very hot.

Seems to me that if Honeywell designed these valves to rest in the B position the motors wouldn't burn out so frequently.

No the valve in most systems spends more time unpowered in the hot water position over the course of its lifetime

and if you wish to plumb and wire it so its unpowered for heating and powered for hot water then there is nothing to stop you doing so as long as you use a room stat with a satisfied/cooling terminal
 
At this moment in time there are probably about 12,000,000 syncronous motors powered and stalled in motor valves.

Most of these last for at least 15 years!

The motors are designed to be stalled and that has little effect on their life.

Its far more important that they are installed in the open where there is a flow of air and not under floors or covered by untidy clothes in an airing cupboard.

Tony
 
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No the valve in most systems spends more time unpowered in the hot water position over the course of its lifetime

I don't agree - my system and I expect most, satisfy the DHW first so almost always end the daily cycle in the powered mid or CH position and then spend the rest of the day quietly smouldering until the next cycle.

Even uncovered by blankets etc the motors get very hot - much too hot to touch which can't do anything for their longevity.

I've had two fail in quick succession.

Interesting link to the chap who aids cooling via drilling the cover - I'm going to give that a try.
 
I don't agree - my system and I expect most, satisfy the DHW first so almost always end the daily cycle in the powered mid or CH position and then spend the rest of the day quietly smouldering until the next cycle.

I've had two fail in quick succession.

You seem to have forgotten that more than half of the year is summertime when heating is not required !

You have also forgotten that in most homes even during the winter the heating is only on for 0700-0830 and then 1700-2300. Thats only about a third of the day!

So Matt has correctly stated that the valves are off much more than they are on.

Tony
 
there's a guy who done some mods to get around that problem


Lordy! :rolleyes:

That'll look good on the insurance claim form/ inquest report; the 230V valve actuator covers had had holes drilled through them by the installer.
Some time later, a leak developed ...etc..

I find the S-plan (2 x 2-port zone valves) system is more reliable. The valves are intended to spring-return to the safest position in the event of power failure; there is no simpler way of achieving this, other than holding the spring open with the motor stalled.

There are Mo-Mo (motor on/open and motor off/closed) valves available and in theory they should be more reliable. Sunvic are about the only maker who offer them for domestic installations, but the actuators have their own reliability problems ( Google Seered Sunvic).

24V Mo-MO actuators are generally used for commercial control applications, a spring return is usually an option on the actuator if required.
 
You have also forgotten that in most homes even during the winter the heating is only on for 0700-0830 and then 1700-2300. Thats only about a third of the day!

So Matt has correctly stated that the valves are off much more than they are on.

Tony

It's only relevant to consider the times when the system is actually operating.

With the valve powered for CH then with your figures its powered for 7.5 hours less any DHW use.

Switch it around and it could be off for CH and powered for say 45 mins of DHW use on perhaps 5 separate occasions.

In the summer when there is no CH requirement then powering for DHW exercises the valve.

Obviously the argument is a lot clearer when a DHW priority system is considered, but bikeman123's comment is a good one.
 
Agile - my CH/DHW are on for an hour in the morning and 5 hours at night in the winter during this time the valve moves around depending upon demand.

BUT for the remaining 18 hours a day the motor holds against the springs in the last position. 9 times out of ten this is the CH position - IT DOES NOT RETURN TO THE DHW POSITION SO REMAINS ENERGISED by the programmer's DHW off wire which remains live.

That means for 18 hours out of 24 when the CH/DHW is off the motor sites there energised and heating up (on top of normal use).

This is how it is for 6 months/18 hours a day of the year. That's more that enough to shorten it's life.
 
To me the situation is totally clear!

The standard design only powers the motor for CH for about two months every year!

Its only a few watts but reducing consumption is always a good idea.

I dont see why you wish to argue.

The OP was suggesting that powered motors caused them to prematurely fail. The evidence is that is NOT the case!

Tony
 
The OP was suggesting that powered motors caused them to prematurely fail. The evidence is that is NOT the case!
Tony

And you clearly don't seem to understand that when CH and DHW are off the mottor remains energised and gets extremely hot. Heat is the enemy of electronics.

Argue all you like.
 
And you clearly don't seem to understand that when CH and DHW are off the mottor remains energised and gets extremely hot. Heat is the enemy of electronics.

Argue all you like.

It depends what position the valve was in
and it only remains held open till hotwater is called for
IF you are so convinced that it spends more time fully open to central heating then fully open to hotwater
then either
a) turn it around and wire it to suit or
b) fit a momo
 
I'd be more concerned that if its energised so long ..that it would add to my electricity bill ..

so how much do these things use over a year .

even a tenner is too much

all the best.markj
 
You are all wrong :)

I've pulled out many sychrons that were 20 years old or more.

But, these were made by the original company in the US...Hanson. They were quality motors.

Now, however, many synchrons are cheap Chinese copies and I don't think even Honeywell are using the OEM parts since I've had many motors fail after only 18 months, and they were in well ventillated areas.

As with everything today it's all carp. :rolleyes:
 
This post is ridiculous!!!! Sychronous motors are designed to hold powered in a stalled state yes they generate heat but at 8w it is hardly life threatening and Whilst I agree that heat is the enemy of electronics a sychron motor is NOT electronic, i suspec the OP has been unlucky to have two fail in quick succession or has he bought a very cheap replacement motor on fleabay with only a 4w rating??? this cheapo motors are Carp! most 8w motors last several years with no problems at all! so please don not try to re-invent the wheel!! :rolleyes:
 

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