Downlighting and bathrooms

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Hi and thanks for any help in advance. So doing bathroom at home and wanting downlighting in the bathroom. Looked at the 17th regs and zoning etc and see that ceilings above 2.25m are classed as dry zone, so can I put any downlighting in I want, as I sent my partner to the lighting shop (friends) to get the spots we liked and transformers, and they keep telling her that the bathroom is classed as a steam area and the lights would need to zone 1.

If that's the case then why on the 17th diagram does it say that above 2.25m is dry? My ceilings are 2.4m [/list]
 
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The regulations don't consider the area outside the zones to be 'dry', they just consider the areas outside the zones to be outside the normal reach of anybody using the bath / shower / basin / whatever the zone surrounds.

As always, fittings outside the specified zones still need to be suitable for the environment they are installed in.

Inside the specified zones, further protection measures are required, as these are the areas where the general view is that electrical fittings may be expected to come into contact with unprotected wet skin.

There is also the legal requirement to notify the LABC of any electrical work carried out in bathrooms, not just work inside the specified zones.
 
Above 2.25mm directly above the shower tray/ bathtub is defined to be zone 2, not outside of zones, and equipment is required to be rated to IPx4... even those running on SELV supplies.... spots of water landing on unprotected lamps can lead to rapid cool resulting in the glass fracturing and the falling of hot lamp components :!:

Outside of zones as TTC says, it still has to be suitable for a bathroom
 
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Above 2.25mm directly above the shower tray/ bathtub is defined to be zone 2, not outside of zones, and equipment is required to be rated to IPx4...

That seems to be a common belief, and would make some sense, but unless something has gone wrong with my eyesight, it is NOT what the regs say. There seems no doubt at all that the regs say that all zones end at 2.25m above finished floor level, even if over a bath or shower. If you still have doubts, look at Fig. 701.2 in the regs.

Kind Regards, John.
 
So it seems there is a difference of opinion, is it a case of best practice then, even though as johnw2 says and I had believed, all zones end at 2.25 above finished floor level. The confusing thing is that different people tell you their interpritation of the regulations even though the regs are clear.
I understand the reasons some of you have put forward with regards safety issues but if there were such an issue with threse things happening, why do zones not go up to and over 2.25m as most newer buildings ceilings are 2.4m or greater. :(
 
So it seems there is a difference of opinion, is it a case of best practice then, even though as johnw2 says and I had believed, all zones end at 2.25 above finished floor level. The confusing thing is that different people tell you their interpritation of the regulations even though the regs are clear.
I understand the reasons some of you have put forward with regards safety issues but if there were such an issue with threse things happening, why do zones not go up to and over 2.25m as most newer buildings ceilings are 2.4m or greater. :(

No difference of opinion. Above 2.25m = outside zones. So the equipment fitted in this area only has to meet the general requirements and be 30mA RCD protected.

However, I would advise that if you intend to fit an extractor fan above the shower in the location you have suggested then it should be rated for a minimum ipx4.

Belt and braces I know but your choice ;)
 
This reads to me as two different subjects getting confused. The Red Book zones relate to electrical safety and differentiate between whether electrical equipment can be there, and if so whether 240V can be used or 12V must be used. The IP rating and "steam" area is something quite different.

Above a shower I would always use "bathroom rated" downlights, ie sealed against the moisture escaping into the ceiling space - whether they're 240 or 12 is another matter.

PJ
 
Interesting point. Pre-17th everfything in a bathroom, for instance, was in a zone; since 17th Zone 3 has been removed so what used to be Zone 3 but within the walled space of the bathroom is now outside zones. A strict reading as BAS has presented it is that a bathroom is NOT a special location, only those bits of the bathroom that fall within the zones. Hmmmm. Anyone wanna argue the point with the building inspector?

PJ
 
Interesting point. Pre-17th everfything in a bathroom, for instance, was in a zone;
No it wasn't.


since 17th Zone 3 has been removed so what used to be Zone 3 but within the walled space of the bathroom is now outside zones.
Zone 3 was finite - it was quite possible pre-17th for there to be space within the bathroom walls that was not in any Zone.

electrics:speclcn:16th_bathroom_zones.jpg%20



A strict reading as BAS has presented it is that a bathroom is NOT a special location, only those bits of the bathroom that fall within the zones.
You say "strict reading" as if it's possible that there might be a flaw in it.

Just RTFBR!

Before the latest change, the Building Regulations contained this definition:

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.

Now it contains this one:

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, seventeenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2008(2).

The reference in the list of exempt work to "special location" has always, always, always meant within Zones 0, 1, 2 and when it existed, 3.

It has never, never, never meant "anywhere within the walls of the bathroom".

You'd have to have seriously deficient reading and comprehension skills to think otherwise.

Would a larger font size help?

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, ....

Sheesh. :evil:


Hmmmm. Anyone wanna argue the point with the building inspector?
Are you suggesting that BCOs have seriously deficient reading and comprehension skills?
 
Is that in GN7?
No, it's in the Building Regulations.

Surely you've read them? :rolleyes:

Got your 'bad head' on (again) today then BAS :rolleyes:

You cannot help yourself can you.......... A simple question requiring nothing but a simple response - like

The Building Regulations 2010 Schedule 4 subsection 4.

There that wasn't hard was it?
Try it sometimes - you might even feel better about yourself. ;)
 
You cannot help yourself can you..........
Can't help myself what?

Being more than a tad exasperated that someone who has in the past given advice to others concerning the Building Regulations hasn't actually read them?

Being more than a tad exasperated that someone who sees a quotation which is a hyperlink can't be bothered to click the bl**dy thing and see what it links to?

Yes to both.

Funny, that, isn't it.
 

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