Aircraft on a conveyor
- Thread starter megawatt
- Start date
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cantaloup63
This thread is like a tube of Pringles. Once you pop, you just can't stop 
cantaloup63 said:
No it won't. There is a second force coming through the wheel bearings which exactly balances the engine's thrust.
imamartian said:
It makes no difference if you replace the engine with a winch. No matter how hard you pull, the conveyor is pre-programmed to apply an equal and opposite tangential force to the tyres. The combined effect of your winch, acting through the bearings, and the conveyor acting on the tyres will cause the wheels' angular momentum to increase WITHOUT LIMIT. To make this work, we have to make a number of unrealistic assumptions:
1) The wheels are strong enough to hold together as their circumferential velocity approaches light speed.
2) The force of the engine/winch does not exceed the grip of the tyres on the conveyor. (Replace them with pinions on a rack gear if you like.)
3) The force from the engine/winch is in line with the surface of the conveyor - otherwise the plane will nose-dive.
Trust me, the physics is correct.
Once you pop, you just can't stop
........Said the priest to the choirboy.
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imamartian
cantaloup63 said:
No it won't. There is a second force coming through the wheel bearings which exactly balances the engine's thrust.
imamartian said:
It makes no difference if you replace the engine with a winch. No matter how hard you pull, the conveyor is pre-programmed to apply an equal and opposite tangential force to the tyres. The combined effect of your winch, acting through the bearings, and the conveyor acting on the tyres will cause the wheels' angular momentum to increase WITHOUT LIMIT. To make this work, we have to make a number of unrealistic assumptions:
1) The wheels are strong enough to hold together as their circumferential velocity approaches light speed.
2) The force of the engine/winch does not exceed the grip of the tyres on the conveyor. (Replace them with pinions on a rack gear if you like.)
3) The force from the engine/winch is in line with the surface of the conveyor - otherwise the plane will nose-dive.
Trust me, the physics is correct.
Thank-you for the detailed reply SC..
so with the toy plane analogy, you're saying i wouldn't be able to move it one millimetre? or would the wheels be 'slipping' on the treadmill?
And are you saying the wheel situation is scientific contradiction?
C
cantaloup63
That is a very serious allegation which Herr Ratzinger can't possibly ask the police to investigate, in the interest of the ChurchOnce you pop, you just can't stop
........Said the priest to the choirboy.
Please guy and gals, stop this madness !! lol there are a ton of wind up merchants on here, there are also many people who can't grasp this theory, and get confused on the forces involved on the ground and air. Let it lie chaps, you will only self combust otherwise
I
imamartian
Please guy and gals, stop this madness !! lol there are a ton of wind up merchants on here, there are also many people who can't grasp this theory, and get confused on the forces involved on the ground and air. Let it lie chaps, you will only self combust otherwise
I know it's been done before... but it's never been definitively proven either way....
With the greatest respect, if you don't like this topic, go and chat about something else... you wouldn't go into a boozer and tell a group of people to stop talking about something you were bored with...
My reasoning of the problem is as follows...
Firstly to those who believe that the plane will not move, because the conveyor prevents forward movement, think of this.
The conveyor REACTS to wheel movement, wheel movement is caused by FORWARD movement of the plane, so the only way the conveyor can ever move is if the plane moves FORWARD.
If the plane ever stops, so must the conveyor.
Theoretically.... the plane will have no problem in taking off, as Newtons third law of motion is all you need to understand.
Practically.... it would probably self destruct on the conveyor.
Firstly to those who believe that the plane will not move, because the conveyor prevents forward movement, think of this.
The conveyor REACTS to wheel movement, wheel movement is caused by FORWARD movement of the plane, so the only way the conveyor can ever move is if the plane moves FORWARD.
If the plane ever stops, so must the conveyor.
Theoretically.... the plane will have no problem in taking off, as Newtons third law of motion is all you need to understand.
Practically.... it would probably self destruct on the conveyor.
I
imamartian
yeah i thought that earlier... which answers my thoughts on the wheels, but where does the engine thrust go?
imamartian said:
Slip is not allowed. That's unrealistic assumption number two.
Norcon said:
Fair enough. The existence of such a bearing is one more unreasonable assumption.
trazor said:
Now THAT is a very valid argument - and it's one that will lead us into several pages of mathematical argument about limits if we aren't very careful.
Yes, you're right. The plane must move an INFINITESIMAL distance forward if the conveyor is to react. The best I can say is that you can make that distance so small that you will not be able to measure it while simultaneously ensuring that the plane is stationary (Heisenberg uncertainty principle).imamartian said:
It's needed to balance the force that the conveyor is applying to the wheels. These two forces must be equal and opposite or else the plane will move.
The conveyor speed has to match the plane speed.
I'm in Tescos and the conveyor is doing 1mph, half way there's a starter post.
Ok so far so good, now if I stand my piper Cherokee on the start line it will end up in the cashiers lap, but if I start it up and match the conveyor speed at 1 mph I will stay on the start line.
Hopefully were all in agreement so far
Now if I want to take off because I'm bored sat here not going anywhere, then I would need to increase the power and go faster than the conveyor,, which is against the rules.
With the greatest respect, if you don't like this topic, go and chat about something else... you wouldn't go into a boozer and tell a group of people to stop talking about something you were bored with...
And with all due respect to you, I was under the assumption that the majority of people on here, your good self included, could quite easily grasp this supposed 'concept'. I was obviously wrong on several counts. Hey ho !! Carry on running around in circles....... on your conveyor........... getting nowhere apparently.............. lol
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