Catchment area size

graninwonderland · 18 Dec 2011

I recently bought a decorative effect basket gas fire on line. It was replacing an existing basket fire, dimensions were fine, so I wasn't expecting any problems. However, when the gas fitter checked the installation instructions, the catchment area was too big and the fire couldn't be fitted.

I've now phoned various companies - including their "technical" departments to figure out how I can tell, before buying the fire, whether it's appropriate for my fireplace. None of them have any idea what I'm talking about. The dimensions for the catchment area would appear to only be in the installation instructions - and you don't get those until AFTER you've bought the fire

Any of you kind - and very smart - people out there able to suggest how I get round this?

swbjackson · 18 Dec 2011

Surely all you need to do is reduce the size of the catchment area.

45yearsagasman · 18 Dec 2011

Am I missing something here? Basket fires, catchment area too big? View media item 40719Are you referring to something like this?

graninwonderland · 18 Dec 2011

Ah, Mike. If only it was that easy. To reduce the catchment area, I'd need to call in the builders to brick up the fireplace. Given that the fire was meant to be the finishing touch to a newly decorated and carpeted room, that's a no-no. Besides I like the fireplace the size it is. The space is not abnormally huge - about 100mm higher than the max recommended - and I'd rather just find a fire that's appropriate.

45yrsagasman - yep, free standing, decorative effect gas burner containing, "basket" type fire.

swbjackson · 18 Dec 2011

Ah, I see. I'd suggest you find one you like the look of and then e-mail or ring for a copy of the instructions. If they want to make a sale I'm sure they'd be happy to comply.

namsag · 18 Dec 2011

The reason why catchment has to be a certain size is if its too large the products of combustion get diluted by cold air and the chimney may not pull correctly leading to a dangerous situation .

Bloody ridiculus that they cannot give you information on size before buying

ratonnastick · 18 Dec 2011

Wonder how much money has been wasted by people buying gas fires from say B and Q then calling a gas man to fit it only to be told it does not fit, oh by the way my time has just cost you £xxx.

Ihavenojob · 18 Dec 2011

If you reduce it too much Santa wont fit.

graninwonderland · 18 Dec 2011

Would you believe, I've been phoning companies asking for the information from the installation instructions - even phoned a company that manufactures gas burner pans - but it's like night of the living dead - lights are on, but no-one's home. I did speak to the supplier before I bought the fire, discussed sizes, ventilation etc. and no clue of any problem. And yes, it's cost me nearly £120 (between fitter and postage costs to return the fire) to NOT get a fire fitted. Obviously I don't want to chuck good money after bad, so is there even some way I can figure out the appropriate catchment area from other more readily available info, e .g. thermal output?

gaswizzard · 18 Dec 2011

Have a look at the flue sizing chart , this will explain the opening size relevant to the height/diameter of flue , in your case 225mm cross section (9" brick chimney) , if you have no joy then post the opening size along with flue height and someone will help you.

expertgasman · 18 Dec 2011

Would you believe, I've been phoning companies asking for the information from the installation instructions - even phoned a company that manufactures gas burner pans - but it's like night of the living dead - lights are on, but no-one's home. I did speak to the supplier before I bought the fire, discussed sizes, ventilation etc. and no clue of any problem. And yes, it's cost me nearly £120 (between fitter and postage costs to return the fire) to NOT get a fire fitted. Obviously I don't want to chuck good money after bad, so is there even some way I can figure out the appropriate catchment area from other more readily available info, e .g. thermal output?[/quote]

Most manufacturers are not interested in talking to the end user. Why should they?, that is what RGIs are for. It is your stupid fault for preparing and decorating BEFORE getting an RGI in to give you a quote for the job. It's like building a garage the buying a limo and complaing that the gargae didn't state the obvious.

And no, you can't just make up your own rules either. There is a set formula for the calculation.

What is more, the fire you have bought isn't a real heater, just a means of chucking cash up a chimney. If you had gone to a proper shop, you may have got some proper advice.

What is the Kw input of the fire?

graninwonderland · 18 Dec 2011

Hello expertgasman. Do you practice being a rude ****, or does it come naturally?

This fireplace opening - and the existing fire - had been there for 20 years plus. Discussed with RGI, and supplier and everyone thought it was a simple like for like exchange so stupidity doesn't come in to it. And I'm not claiming to be an "expert" but I do know about the lack of efficiency - that's why I called it "decorative" in my first post. Central heating provides the heat and I'm willing to pay the cost of the fire for the effect. Oh, and I did go to a "proper" shop. They tried to sell me an LPG fire....

Gaswizzard - thanks for this. The opening is 560x560x330 deep. At the risk of sounding stupid, not sure about the flue height, but I'm on the top floor of a traditional turn of the century block of flats with intact chimney stacks - does that help???

expertgasman · 18 Dec 2011

graninwonderland";p="2224941 said:

Hello expertgasman. Do you practice being a rude ****, or does it come naturally?

Click to expand...

graninwonderland";p="2224941 said:
Yep, it comes quite easily. You claim to have discussed it with an RGI, then find another one. You have been given an answer by the manufacturere in the form of a manual, but you want to find another way to calculate it, so it fits in with your plans for your waste of space, money and earths resources.

I will give you ONE peice of free info. The manufacturers techs are probably confused because you are banging on a about a "catchment space", which is totally irrellevant with this fire. What you need to talk about is "fireplace opening", along with flue height and diameter/cross sectional area. Not forgetting any minimum hearth depth.

]

gaswizzard · 18 Dec 2011

graninwonderland said:
The opening is 560x560x330 deep.

Minimum flue size for a 3m chimney height would be 225mm cross sectional area (9x9 brick chimney) , as long as chimney height exceeds 3 metres then not a problem.

Fireplace opening is referred too rather than catchment area when dealing with DFEs.

namsag · 18 Dec 2011

The size you give is not really excessive its around size of a standard opening .

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Catchment area size

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