Push fit plastic joints on copper pipes? Is it a good idea?

I have seen one installation where they are being used on a central heating, personally I think who ever did the installation was too lazy, used copper pipes and plastic push fit elbows and other straight through joints.


one such joint slipped off under pressure and caused a fair bit of flooding and water getting into the ceiling below, in the ceiling rose below, including even entered a tungstun bulb!

Probably couldn't solder.

Push fit connectors are designed for use on copper. However, if there is the smallest amount of damage or imperfection in the pipe where the fitting grips, then they can blow off under pressure. Damage can be a dent or if the pipe is slightly oval.

If using copper with push fit couplings, you have to be thorough in inspecting the end of the pipe. In this case, sounds like the 'plumber' wasn't too careful.

copper pipes often act as a second line of protection against earth fault currents, for example if a bath tub or a sink is not bonded to earth, the pipes can act as a second line defence, but if you use plastic fittings, this defence is no longer possible.

Also fit the cir-clip on the JG fittings.

Andy

Mikefromlondon said:

copper pipes often act as a second line of protection against earth fault currents, for example if a bath tub or a sink is not bonded to earth, the pipes can act as a second line defence,

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For the record, you can use push-fit fittings and still have earth continuity; Tectite Pro push-fit (brass fittings) offers earth continuity.

You need to be sure that the tube is inserted fully - in other words - that it is done properly. Pushfit should not be used on chromium plated copper.

push fits can be used on chrome plated copper as long as you remove the plating where the grip ring fits but i would agree as its more hassle than its worth. I prefer compression on chrome then you know it won't shift.
Most electric showers now have a push fit to accept the pipe and chrome looks better than copper aeshetically but no good if its not captive or it'll blow straight off.
I only like copper for CH including elbows/joints etc cos its maintenance free if done right. All push fits have a life expectancy but as has been said here its easy and hence a lazy way of doing it in my opinion.
Fine for non heated applications but even then, copper is king.
If using push fits on copper in a bathroom setting then each joint should be bridged with an earth bond to maintain continuity but it'll look a mess and is a pain to install so why not just go with copper end feed in the first place?

Thanks for the information,

Charnwood said:

Mikefromlondon said:

copper pipes often act as a second line of protection against earth fault currents, for example if a bath tub or a sink is not bonded to earth, the pipes can act as a second line defence,

Click to expand...

For the record, you can use push-fit fittings and still have earth continuity; Tectite Pro push-fit (brass fittings) offers earth continuity.

Click to expand...

Tectite pro are a bit pricey though unless you are buying in massive amounts of bulk. Prob the reason why they are not widely used.
Even pushfits can be pricey compared to a load of E/F copper fittings.
Pound for pound Endfeed are best, cheaper, more reliable,contaminent proof and foolproof. (In a bulk situation)

I am currently investegating a possible problem where i beleive in an installation since it was first done about 3 years ago, the owner has been hearing constant noise in her ears, its been ruled out that she is suffering from Tinnitus, because as soon as she steps out of her house she claims that she stops hearing this weird noise, she describes it as a whistle and often as lod humming noise, had a brand new Vaillant boiler just over a year old replaced with another cheap one from Wickes, two different installers, and even asked vaillant's own engineers to visit her home to sort the problem, endless calls to lots of other plumbers and what not, none could hear any noise and so no one could find anything that is suppose to be causing the noise, finally as I am distant relative of hers, when one of her plastic fitting slipped out on New Years Eve!! her bathroom floor was flooded, the ceiling below had water damage, water went in her electrics!

Neighbours came over, shut down her water supply, switched off her electrics!

She then spent a couple of nights with another relative nearby, and shge swears she slept so calmly. no noises were heard in that other house, and also wehn she goes out she does not hear any noises, but only in her house.

Somehow, as i am her distant relative, I got involved into all this, 2 days after thye flooding, I restored her electrics after checking for any water ingress in her affected areas, after drying and testing any leakage currents, i switched back her supply, all was well, also bought a new plastic elbow and restored her shower feed from the boiler,

We all thought this might have been her problem, but she is still hearing the noises.

Now I have a theory, so i will be further investegating her electrical installation, I beleive that her electrics is responsible for the noise, there may be some applaince like say the fridge, which comes on and off as its compressor motor switches on and off, and it draws current, and I beleive this current is not flowing through the normal Neuteral circuit but may be passing through the earth circuit.

Oh you never know, some people can wire fridges wrongly in the 3 pin plug top, the blue wire could have been wired to the earth pin! and the earth wire to the Neuteral pin!

So this is where her troubles stsrted 3 years ago, before that she had underfloor heating, so when the first installer ran the heating in copper pipes, and used plastic joints, the pipes were no good to act as a secondary earth conductor, and may be (I am suspecting) that her earth circuit is doddgy or not continuous, or perhaphs another electrician (DIY) may have incorrectly carried out her installaition where he may have run her kitchen and boiler earths via the copper pipes instead of using a proper earth conductor within the T&E, or even perhaphs a broken seperate earth conductor.

Therefore I am now thinking that perhaps this is where her noise problems are arrising from, the earth current flowing through her pipe work, are passing through the water, causing sufficient current to pass through, to run the fridge, and in turn may be causing electrolysis, and hissing sound that she only hears, and generating bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen, and this then travels through the pipes, and then collects at the higher spots, and so on.

Someone who stayed with her visiting from USA, also mentioned that whenever he would open the shower or basin taps in her bath, the water would pour out like there has been some sort of air lock and often he would hear some gurgling noise and but not a high pitchj whistle.

So Coming Sunday I am getting over there, measure her earth continuity, check its resistance, find out where the final earth is tied to, not pipes I hope, it should be tuied to the incoming mains supply feed, as well gas and water mains if they are metal.

I hope I can crack this lady's problem, as everyone thinks she is going insane, Vaillant have actually told her she is going mad!

She lives close to Heathrow, and I am not even ruling any possibility of radar signals bouncing of the planes or large tall buildings and projecting onto her pipework, and these microwave radiation can accumulate onto the pipe work and generate energy pockets that may be effecting her head only.

My brother was with me as I took him with me in case I might have defective or not so sharp hearing, at one spot he was standing he had intense chill in his spine, and his hair rose, he showed it to me, that scared the ****e out of me! I hope this place is not haunted!!

He started to feel a great deal of pressure in his head! I did not feel any pressure but because my brother said he was not scared but he was definitely feeling the chill, then I started to feel it out of fear, because I have been watching paranormal activity programmes on sky!

I hope someone will get to the bottom of this lady's plight, before she spends more money on yet another boiler she is considering to replace the current boiler less than 1 year old!

Now you see where I am coming from, this is a 3 year going on problem, no one has managed to sort it out, perhaphs that plastic fitting coming off was where the clue was...... and that isnpired me to look into her earthing system. will have to wait when I get there this Sunday, I am also planning to take a magnetic compass to see if there are any starnge magnetic fields, caused by radiation.

I have not ruled out that her neighbours may be responsible for somthing they are using that might be producing leathal microwave radiation, or anything for that matter!

bernardbeemer said:

Most electric showers now have a push fit to accept the pipe and chrome looks better than copper aeshetically but no good if its not captive or it'll blow straight off.

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Never thought about that, bit of an oversight on the shower manufactors really.
- I can see a market for harder single lenghts of 'decorative finish' plastic pipe. Unless this already exsits? Could be used for radaitors tails as well.


Daniel

Sounds like my nan!

She claimed electricity made her ill, so turned off most of the ring mains and lighting circuits in the house. And then proceded to run extension cables all over everwhere to get what she wanted working....


Daniel

Bloody hell...don't know where to start on this!?
I do feel that you might have an overactive imagination when it comes to the spooks side of things but who knows?
To be honest, you just never know. When a house is old you just have no idea what has been done or by whom in the past so some of the stuff you mention could be happening but it'll be a pig to try and find out.
I used to live by and work at Heathrow so i know for a fact that it and the surrounding areas do have higher levels of radiation from radar and the general amount of crap that goes on but still not normally enough to affect what goes on in a house.
But then like you say, if other factors are at fault its possible that it could be a contributing factor to the problem.
We used to have a fridge that made jungle noises but that was the compressor itself being noisy and the TV makes high pitched noise when it has alot of white on the screen but its hardly noticable unless its very quiet.
Hope you get it sorted.