And who would be doing that?
Yale Premium Alarm Hsa6400 Wirefree Alarm Kit
- Thread starter Chrispace69
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mdf290
Presumably all the people making abig deal about the fact the alarm can be set with a door open. Europlex for one seems to think that would mean you would be burgled and the alarm would not go off.
Don't sit on the fence. Come out with and say openly what you were inferring.
You, the DIYer claim those in the trade, and are independently inspected, don't know what they are doing.
Or are you being your usual self and just trying to cloud the issue whilst conveniently forgetting the weaknesses in the one system you fit??
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mdf290
It would be interesting to hear the NACOSS view on the advertised grade 2 systems comprising only 1 door contact and two pir sensors which are sold as or fitted as grade 2.
Why don't you ask them?
Get onto the Advertising Standards people whilst your at it.
Thing is, you won't because you'll just make yourself look silly.
Well here is where you are totally wrong " Europlex for one seems to think that would mean you would be burgled and the alarm would not go off."
That's not what I think at all. What I think is not printable, but to help an amateur, understand, a 'real' alarm system, even a DiY one, will tell you that you have left the door open.
So from what you say you are happy for people to go out leaving their back doors open all day then, safe in the knowledge that there house is not correctly protected. I assume you point out this failing in your 'professionally' installed DiY system, of course you don't.
JohnD is obsessed with getting figure for number of messages that might be lost. He seems unwilling to accept that his experience of over 10,000 message without a single loss may be unique or that at some time a message was lost but no one noticed it was lost.
The specification for the communications protocol used in a tele-command system required that if 433.xx Mhz was used then the link would have to operate without error while enduring loss of up to 3% of packets sent. ( 3 packets in 100 being lost or corrupted beyond recovery ).
The 3% figure was based on the results of a survey carried out by an independent body into the various channels available to tele-command equipment. I do not have any details of that survey.
[/quote]
The specification for the communications protocol used in a tele-command system required that if 433.xx Mhz was used then the link would have to operate without error while enduring loss of up to 3% of packets sent. ( 3 packets in 100 being lost or corrupted beyond recovery ).
The 3% figure was based on the results of a survey carried out by an independent body into the various channels available to tele-command equipment. I do not have any details of that survey.
[/quote]
Some suppliers of DIY alarms using one way licence exempt wireless communication reccommend turning off one of their tamper functions if the alarm starts sounding for no apparent reason.
How many professionals would recommend turning off a tamper function on a wired system ? Few if any as they would prefer to locate and repair the cause of the tamper condition.
Can johnD or mdf now provide a logical reason why a tamper function should be turned OFF and then tell us what effect that now un-detectable tamper could have on the alarms ability to go into alarm should there be a break in.
No, JohnD is very keen to get Bernard to say something serious and meaningful about the probability that an interfering signal will block your sensor at the same fraction of a second that a burglar breaks into your house, rather than the vague and unsubstantiated smears he likes throwing around. This is the only thing that actually matters.
JohnD has never asked for the number of messages that might be lost.
No chance of actually getting any serious real-life figure from Bernard though, as he knows that if we start to see realistic numbers for the probability that an interfering signal will block your sensor at the same fraction of a second that a burglar breaks into your house, the true probability will be vanishingly small and will show Bernard to have been trying to stir up unfounded fears and making misleading statements.
I don't suppose he will ever change.
Bernard's repeated misleading and unsubstantiated smears and refusal to answer a very simple and important question are an example of a pro telling householders all sorts of things to put them off.
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It really is quite simple, for house holders and professionals alike, there are standards that cover the installation requirements and the performance of security systems in buildings. If the equipment meets those requirements, and has been independently tested and certified to the requirements, then both the installer and the home owner can be confident that the equipment will do what it says.
Although not a mandatory requirement in the UK at this moment, the EU is putting into place a quality mark for security systems, which is likely to become a requirement to actually place the equipment on the market in the first place. To achieve the mark, manufacturers will be required to have their equipment independently tested and certified as stated above.
The suite of EN standards that relate to Intruder Alarm Systems in buildings are EN50131
http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/SearchResults/?q=bs en50131
For wireless alarm systems there are specific requirements which are grade dependant for messages, packet loss, interference both in and out of band, housing penetration, removal from mounting tamper, etc etc etc ..
Wireless equipment must also meet the requirements of ETSI http://www.etsi.org/WebSite/homepage.aspx
So the upshot is only use equipment that meets the requirements of the standards in place, 99% of installers i know do this.
And you won't find any claims of compliance to the required standards from companies who market DIY type equipment.
Although not a mandatory requirement in the UK at this moment, the EU is putting into place a quality mark for security systems, which is likely to become a requirement to actually place the equipment on the market in the first place. To achieve the mark, manufacturers will be required to have their equipment independently tested and certified as stated above.
The suite of EN standards that relate to Intruder Alarm Systems in buildings are EN50131
http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/SearchResults/?q=bs en50131
For wireless alarm systems there are specific requirements which are grade dependant for messages, packet loss, interference both in and out of band, housing penetration, removal from mounting tamper, etc etc etc ..
Wireless equipment must also meet the requirements of ETSI http://www.etsi.org/WebSite/homepage.aspx
So the upshot is only use equipment that meets the requirements of the standards in place, 99% of installers i know do this.
And you won't find any claims of compliance to the required standards from companies who market DIY type equipment.
That's great, Adrian. Can you point out a few of those that are telecommunicating, and a cash-strapped householder can buy for £155 and install in an hour?
As you know, there are some buyers for whom those are important features.
As you know, there are some buyers for whom those are important features.
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No i cannot and that is my point, if you want peace of mind that your wireless or wired alarm system will operate correctly it's going to cost more than £155 and so it should.
Unfortunately most people do not see an alarm system as desirable and therefore do not associate the correct level of value against the purchase price, it has nothing to do with being cash strapped, there are plenty of schemes from professional companies offering decent compliant equipment at annual costs that are affordable by most.
Unfortunately most people do not see an alarm system as desirable and therefore do not associate the correct level of value against the purchase price, it has nothing to do with being cash strapped, there are plenty of schemes from professional companies offering decent compliant equipment at annual costs that are affordable by most.
So you would agree with me that
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No not really I don't believe that any systems should be sold which do not meet the requirements of published standards.
Standards are there for a reason, to make sure the kit you buy does what it is intended for, I fail to see how equipment that does not meet the requirements of the standards can be expected to perform as expected/required.
Standards are there for a reason, to make sure the kit you buy does what it is intended for, I fail to see how equipment that does not meet the requirements of the standards can be expected to perform as expected/required.
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