Yale Premium Alarm Hsa6400 Wirefree Alarm Kit

Not looking for an argument I just wanted to know what qualifies your opinion so that anybody else reading the thread knows that the source of your information can be trusted.

mdf290 said:

alumni said:

And the point of all that dribble??

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The point being a poorly risk assesed Grade2 or one fitted with compromises because the owner will not pay for extra sensors is as much use as a chocolate fireguard but it will still be insurance approved and NACOSS honoured because the company installing will have paid there subscriptions.

Now everyone can bleat all they want about a Yale alarm (and you are for sure) but you cannot take any moral high ground when your systems are offered as guaranteed police response (when they won't) and a grade2 system is only as good as the pserson doing the risk assesment and the punters decision to pay the right money.

Now I know NACOSS charge to come and view installations so you keep your approval.

I wonder how many times they get sent to view a system with one door contact and two pir sensors? . . .

lol , I am certainly not going to wait for an answer to that one just the usual hysterical personal attack... bored.

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Keep up with the times...Slowalarm. Who is this NACOSS lot you seem fond of quoting?
And you need to read up on the rules of the game regarding the Inspections. Oh, hang on, you don't know them do you. Just throwing wild accusations around without any evidence.

Stick to what you know...whatever that is.

AdrianMealing said:

Not looking for an argument I just wanted to know what qualifies your opinion so that anybody else reading the thread knows that the source of your information can be trusted.

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Common sense , experience and over 1000 installs personally.
First part of the risk assesment is for me is to qualify whether the person needs an insurance approved system , If so its refer on and phone down time.
Then its whether its a commercial or domestic requirement.
If commercial then its what is the product or property you wish to protect and do you need insurance approval - If valuable stock likely to be stolen or insurance approval needed then refer on and phone down time
Then its down to where is the home/property and what are your items at risk...?
If its bad area and valuable items then its refer on and phone down time..
So we then get to someone not requiring an insurance approved system who has standard home security needs . . Then the real assesment starts..
Which door do you use to come in?
Do you use the other door.
How many people need access?
Do you want to use it at night?
Do you have any bulding adjoining or other means of access to upstairs?
Do you have a cellar?
Does it have any access from outside?
Do you have a garage?
How many rooms do you have with window access from outside at ground floor?
How many doors do you have and do you have a patio door..

etc etc etc

Do you require a linked smoke detector...

The above is just a quick list and does not cover all the eventualities I normally ask about dependent on what I find on site...

^^^^^^^

And then fits grade 1 toot.

Time to pull up an armchair and popcorn me thinks.

alumni said:

Keep up with the times...Slowalarm. Who is this NACOSS lot you seem fond of quoting?
And you need to read up on the rules of the game regarding the Inspections. Oh, hang on, you don't know them do you. Just throwing wild accusations around without any evidence.

Stick to what you know...whatever that is.

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NSI!

alumni said:

^^^^^^^

And then fits grade 1 toot.

Time to pull up an armchair and popcorn me thinks.

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The kit works - I hate to spill the bad news to you but if you enter a property with a properly installed Yale alarm , guess what?

Yes the alarm goes off... well I'll be blowed who'd have thought it?

mdf290 said:

NSI!

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Had to go look it up did you?

OK so you THINK you know, just for your information I am currently:-

A Director of the BSIA
Chairman of the Security Equipment Manufacturers Section at the above
A UK Expert on CENELEC TC79 WG2 responsible for EN Detector Standards
A UK Expert on CENELEC TC79 WG11 responsible for EN Wireless Standards
A member of BSI working group responsible for standards in the UK

My work with the above involves me on a regular basis with the Police, the Insurers, the Inspectorates, and the many installers all over the world who understand quality and value, and are able to satisfy their customers needs without dropping to the lowest common denominator.... Price.

I also happen to work for one of the largest manufacturers of security equipment in the UK who sell all over the world, and turnover £25 million + per annum.

Your questions/answers to people on here who DO know what they are talking about shows your lack of understanding, you say you do risk assessments, based on what?

What if you have ALWAYS done it wrong because you don't operate on the regulated side of the industry like many on here do.

How many of the standards that are relevant to our industry do you actually own and understand?

AdrianMealing said:

I also happen to work for one of the largest manufacturers of security equipment in the UK who sell all over the world, and turnover £25 million + per annum.

Your questions/answers to people on here who DO know what they are talking about shows your lack of understanding, you say you do risk assessments, based on what?

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Says it all really someone else with an axe to grind because people buying Yale hurts your bottom line.

Why I wonder is everyone running around wailing about Yale all of a sudden.
Methinks this recession has hit the security industry HARD , no housing market , people watching their pennies, companies with existing large overheads...

yep all the pointers are there

Like i said you have no idea what you are talking about, Apples and Pears to people that know, the problem is you are trying to make out that your apples are the same as our pears, and you tell unwitting customers this, I accept there will always be a DIY market, but DIY kit should be fitted as described Do It Yourself, don't pay someone who thinks he understands the security industry and technology to do it for you.

If you think that my business has been affected by the recession it clearly shows how little you know, when times are hard and there is a recession we sell more gear, its a fact, domestic and commercial burglary are on the up, the overall crime rate is down, but the government fails to blab about the increase. I am also not proud of this fact it just shows what a sorry state this country is in, but it does help us keep 300+ people employed in the UK and i am very proud of that fact.

So yes the business has been affected, in a positive way, and you still have not answered my last questions, again you are making assumptions.

By the way I don't need an axe, I have nothing to grind, and i have said nothing about Yale specifically, i was merely commenting in this thread about your lack of understanding of technology and risk, and the false comparisons you continue to make with DIY and Professional equipment.

mdf290 said:

Says it all really someone else with an axe to grind because people buying Yale hurts your bottom line.

Why I wonder is everyone running around wailing about Yale all of a sudden.
Methinks this recession has hit the security industry HARD , no housing market , people watching their pennies, companies with existing large overheads...

yep all the pointers are there

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Are you for real??
The person you are referring to could not be more transparent. But no. You, the self confessed DIYer claiming to be the dogs dangly's and the only one beyond reproach insinuate yet again ulterior motives without a shred of evidence.
Seems you've still not got over the total embarrassment you made of yourself in the trade forums.

AdrianMealing said:

By the way I don't need an axe, I have nothing to grind, and i have said nothing about Yale specifically, i was merely commenting in this thread about your lack of understanding of technology and risk, and the false comparisons you continue to make with DIY and Professional equipment.

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Ok I apologise.

But I need to raise some points that you have not considered.

You seem to be assuming that the DIY products are not fit for purpose
You also fail to see the merit of someone having a DIY alarm fitted for them by someone with extensive experience of doing just that.

Would you not agree that in the case of elderly people , Ladies (and men) who would not feel comfortable climbing a ladder , ethnic groups who would struggle with the English only manuals , the disabled , and generally people who don't posses the skills or confidence would be better off having a DIY alarm installed for them.

Are you saying it would be better for them or even ALL people buying a DIY alarm to find out it was incorrectly fitted because they were burgled?

Even people who buy one intending to fit it but never quite getting round to it would be better of having it installed for them.

A DIY alarm is some people ONLY budgetery option are you suggesting that they would be better with nothing at all.

You don't need to take issue with this segment of the market because in reality it's not your consumer base anyway.

I understand exactly why the system works as it does with the organisations involved but specifying certain standards puts any option out of some peoples reach.

If you want to pick on an area where DIY alarms are used as a form of exploitation then I suggest you look into this organisation.
They are a Police approved organisation who are supposed to be an arms length charity but get funding from local government and brand and suggest their services are endorsed by the police and to top it all they OVERCHARGE to a huge extent the fitting of DIY alarms. The Police refer victims to this organisation sadly only for them to be exploited with overcharged services.

http://www.casac.org.uk/burglary-reduction/alarm/yale-premium-burglar-alarm

Perhaps with your connections to the Police you could look into this and their website featuring Police wording and branding?

They even describe the YALE family alarm as telecommunicating when it isn't at all... they also employ young lads to install them with what training??? http://www.casac.org.uk/burglary-reduction/alarm/yale-family-burglar-alarm

They even suggest putting Yale sensors IN YOUR CAR! on their twitter feed for goodness sakes , don't they know about a faraday cage on signals or the effect of warm air movements on a pir , false alarms or no alarms...unbelievable

A DIY alarm is some people ONLY budgetery option are you suggesting that they would be better with nothing at all.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/forums/alarms...refree-alarm-kit.333540/page-18#ixzz26K1vftxL

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Depends on the risk.

As for the organisation you mention, i am not the one who wants to pick on someone, they state that the system is not police or insurance approved, and they may be using a standalone speech dialler to telecommmunicate, these as i am sure you know will work with any system.

Regarding your comments about the types of people who can and cannot afford certain types of system, i refer you to my earlier post about schemes offered by most installers to cater for these, they are not in reality expensive, and if all of the required information is provided they can make an informed choice. There are plenty of alternatives to a DIY system which is not fitted DIY, and there are those who will have a DIY system installed by someone else, market forces etc....

As for DIY products not being fit for purpose, that depends on whether or not they meet the requirements of industry standards, if they do then i am a happy bunny, if they don't then my point stands.

And apology accepted.

I am surprised you actually said that in any circumstance not having a Yale alarm could be preferable to non at all.

I am not wrong about that organisation. People who are burgled are forwarded on to that charity by the Police on the scene.
This overides any disclaimer about Poice approval that the homeowner may never see if they never visit the website.
It's an organisation run by an ex policeman and frankly the whole set up makes me want to vomit.
I have been to people who have had someone out from Casac and have been quoted £2000 for bells only systems from one of their approved tradesmen.
It's nothing short of shocking.

What is worse of course is that their product knowledge means thay are totally misselling the Family Alarm System which has NO dialler.

You have actually suggested they may be using an add on dialler . . There is NO facility in the Family Alarm to make this addition..

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...rms_and_Protection/7193/Yale_Family_Alarm_Kit

The Yale family alarm of course can be fitted in one hour and CASAC are charging customers (victims) from £450 for something that the victim could have bought for £162

Its interesting that you don't seek to pick up on individual cases when you with all your grand position and experience have decided to bide your time on a really quite inconsequential argument on a public forum.

You have mentioned many times about how users could be getting missold. Given the comments are in relation to aspects added to this thread I could easily concur those comments are aimed at myslef. Bernards Comments are specifically aimed at myself in the belief that I am somehow misleading people.
Sadly one of my greatest personality defects is my altruism and honesty.
You would not believe how being a straight up guy counts against you in a world where deceipt equalls money.

Being fit for purpose however has no relation to industry standards at all.

If the alarm goes off if someone enters the home it is fit for purpose , it is as simple as that.

mdf290 said:

I am not wrong about that organisation. People who are burgled are forwarded on to that charity by the Police on the scene.
This overides any disclaimer about Police approval that the homeowner may never see if they never visit the website.
It's an organisation run by an ex policeman and frankly the whole set up makes me want to vomit.
I have been to people who have had someone out from Casac and have been quoted £2000 for bells only systems from one of their approved tradesmen.
It's nothing short of shocking.

What is worse of course is that their product knowledge means thay are totally misselling the Family Alarm System which has NO dialler.

The Yale family alarm of course can be fitted in one hour and CASAC are charging customers (victims) from £450 for something that the victim could have bought for £162

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You are clearly annoyed by this outfit and i do suspect it is not through altruism alone.
That said. You might want to look a little deeper into both organisations. Lets just say that charity does appear to begin at home.

mdf290 said:

Being fit for purpose however has no relation to industry standards at all.

If the alarm goes off if someone enters the home it is fit for purpose , it is as simple as that.

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So what do you think the industry standards are for? and based on?

One has to wonder, based on your comment, why you seemed to make such a big deal of the new Grade 2 kit from Yale.