XP still supported?

A question about my local primary school.

They're happily running XP Pro. Microsoft have said that XP will be supported till around March 2014 so they weren't planning to upgrade till then. They've been told by their IT service provider that they must upgrade now because:

1. All new PCs come with Windows 8 and Microsoft won't permit a free downgrade to XP
2. Some of the hardware / drivers in new PCs don't support XP so any new PC may not work right

Are these really true?

JohnBoyII said:

A question about my local primary school.

They're happily running XP Pro. Microsoft have said that XP will be supported till around March 2014 so they weren't planning to upgrade till then. They've been told by their IT service provider that they must upgrade now because:

1. All new PCs come with Windows 8 and Microsoft won't permit a free downgrade to XP
2. Some of the hardware / drivers in new PCs don't support XP so any new PC may not work right

Are these really true?

Click to expand...

It's difficult to see what they are saying. Do they mean one of:-
~ existing PCs should be upgraded to W8
~ existing PCs should be scrapped forthwith and replaced with PCs with W8
~ new PCs should be obtained to have XP loaded on them while it is still available

Whatever happens with new PCs it isn't going to affect the operation of the old ones.

The suggestion is that the school should move up to Windows 7 as a minimum for all PCs. You're right that all our current PCs are fine, but if any need to be replaced then the new PC would not have XP. So we would end up with some (old) PCs running XP and some (new) PCs running Windows 7. By moving up to Windows 7 across the school would mean a consistent system for everyone.

An issue for us is that we still use a lot of software designed for XP that we cannot easily get on Windows 7. Either for cost reasons or because the software is no longer available.

Is it really true that hardware in new PCs running Windows 8 would not run under XP? Have companies stopped making drivers for XP?

im sure ive read somewhere that updates for xp will stop at the end of 2013??
anyway.
if its a cost issue why not hold out until the budget has been awarded then go for windows 8 and bypass win 7 all together.

Just because updates and support will stop does not mean that XP will stop working.

If it aint broke - dont fix it.

The IT company just see ££ signs , tell them no -XP is still OK.

The only thing you need to do is keep the XP PC's and 7 PC's apart so they don't fight.

Don't forget that under EU rules, you can transfer the licence from an old, defective (dead) PC to a new one. Even if the PC manufacturer (or motherboard manufacturer) does not have drivers available, very often the chipset manufacturer will have. Even if that is not the case, sometimes an alternative, older driver may work.

JohnBoyII said:

An issue for us is that we still use a lot of software designed for XP that we cannot easily get on Windows 7. Either for cost reasons or because the software is no longer available.

Click to expand...

XP software should run on Win7.

If it does not, then you can run Window 7′s XP Mode, which is a free and fully functional version of XP Pro that runs inside a window on Windows 7. There is also other software available to run virtual XP machines in a window, and you would hardly know

I can't see why you would need MS support if you have an IT dept. Windows XP will continue to run in the configuration you have today. The IT dept would like you to upgrade so that it's very easy for them to provide support

Thanks for all the great advice, hopefully the school'll be able to squeeze some life out of XP yet! Apparently the school has a Microsoft volume licensing agreement but have been told that the problem is not getting XP the problem is that PC makers don't supply the XP drivers anymore.

A new PC was just ordered - Dell Optiplex 390 SFF - and they've been told that it will only come with Windows 7 because XP drivers aren't available for all the bits inside. Its a standard Dell PC with no modifications that you can order from the Dell website. Is it really true that Dell don't supply XP drivers for this PC anymore?

Dell, like most other manufacturers, buy in their components. Get hold of the PC with WIN7 on it, see who manufactures each component, video, network, etc, and go to the chip manufacturer's website to see if there are XP drivers available. Or, of course, post back here with the make & models of the components.

JohnBoyII said:

2. Some of the hardware / drivers in new PCs don't support XP so any new PC may not work right

Click to expand...

Large vendors qualify their hardware with the supplied OS. This statement really means that the hardware will not have had qualification on XP - it will almost certainly work, but just won't be thoroughly tested.

mattylad said:

Just because updates and support will stop does not mean that XP will stop working.

If it aint broke - dont fix it.

Click to expand...

Going to strongly disagree here. After the 8th of April 2014, even if a critical security vulnerability is found, Microsoft will not release a patch. Running XP in any kind of profesional enviroment after this date is foolhardy.

And if you don't believe me, just look at the Microsoft security bulletin for March 2012:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-mar
November 2012:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/bulletin/ms12-nov
etc etc - a quick scan reveals that it is almost certain critical vulnerabilities will be discovered post support cut off.

@JohnBoyII - you have alluded to two problems with newer hardware and Windows XP: frist incompatible drivers that cause sluggish performance and the second software that was written for XP and does not run under newer OS. There's still many around and running those apps in Windows XP mode under 7 was not an option in our case. The apps were too slow to respond and user experience would have been dreadful.

Option you have for the school is to get a new PC with Win7/8 and test all the currently used apps they plan to run in the future. Then look for alternatives where required (VDI, Citrix, RemoteApps, App-V, etc.).

Good luck!

The same problem existed when we moved from 98 to XP. Where I was working we had large machines with PLC control which would only run in 98. We had an IT department telling us we must upgrade but would not authorise the couple of million required for new machines.

We bought a laptop with petty cash second hand and loaded in 98 and hid it from IT department and had one desk top set to duel boot with XP and 98.

There is a work around to most problems my PC running XP will not run the software required with new camera but using a DNG converter I have got around the problem.

However with a school it is rather different. What is the point in teaching any child how to use a obsolete system?

I do question the whole idea of using Microsoft programs. Does industry use Microsoft because that's what schools teach kids to use or do the schools use Microsoft because that's what industry uses? If kids were taught using open office would the industry follow suit. Chicken and Egg.

I went to a technical college to learn digital photography. In the exam at that time we would have an Apple Mac running Photoshop CS4. It also had cut down version of Office. I was forced to learn CS4 only. Even if Picturenaut which is free did a better job had to use CS4. Many students came from schools which ran Paint Shop Pro and the poor students were at a disadvantage to those who came from schools using CS4.

So since a primary school the software and hardware used has more to do with what is used in the secondary school than what any IT department says. The students will have a hard enough job adjusting to the school change as it is without also forcing them to relearn how to use a computer.

I had a real job remembering the key strokes for an Apple Mac. Great computer but at home when I wanted a screen print I pressed the Screen Print button. Then I went back to college and it needed a combination of three keys to do same job and I could never remember what they were. I was forever asking other students how to use the Mac.

OK I'm 60 and kids are 11 but still the same. Software and hardware have more to do with what the secondary school uses than what any IT department says.

We are in the process of reviewing customer's systems and slowly over the next year moving them from XP to Windows 7.

This will mean upgrading / replacing some PCs, but as we do a review first the customer can budget for the necessary costs over the period.

As has previously been mentioned post April 2014 Microsoft will wash their hands of XP and will not fix any problems no matter how serious.

Considering that XP came out 10 years ago and we have received free updates and patches for that period I do not see this as a problem.

I would strongly suggest that the school look to moving to W7 before April 2014.

They should also budget for some tweaks to their server software if they are using 2008 / 2008 R2 as it will have been optimised for XP and will need re-optimising for W7.

Hope this helps.

Gary

Just for information. The school have decided to move across to Windows 7, around Easter time. It will mean they'll probably lose some of their legacy softwares but they've decided to invest in newer versions or alternatives. All down to costs now how much they will be able to do.

Just a quick point. Legacy software which is DOS-based or written for Windows 3.1 which is 16-bit software NOT run on 64-bit versions of WinXP, Vista 7 or 8. It should, should being the operative word, run on 32-bit versions of those OSes. This might be worth investigating, especially if the legacy software for which there is no upgrade available is well-liked. However, sometimes Vista/7/8 will require NTVDM.EXE to be force closed after the 16-bit program terminates. (If handles to NTVDM remain in place the 16-bit app will not re-launch without a force-close or reboot)

HTH

PS I'm still using Windows 2000 server on some non-critical applications mainly because I've paid once, and I ain't going to pay again for a new OS until I dam-well have to!