Vinyl tiles: corners not meeting

Tweedledee · 20 Mar 2013

Our installers are about half the way through laying 45cm Expona vinyl tiles and there are locations where the corners seem to be 1mm and
2mm out, and one spot where there is a 3 to 4mm mismatch.

(I just counted 26 corners out by at least 1mm, though I counted quickly and may have missed some).

The area being laid runs from a living room into a hallway, then into a kitchen and back around to the living room through a newly built extension. There's a wall running down the middle: the original dividing wall between the kitchen and living room.

I think the fitter is trying to rush the job and was talking about finishing in two days instead of three.

Should I be calling the boss in to stop the work and put it right, or is it normal to have mismatches at corners on tiles this size? To me it looks poor.

Also, some of the tiles don't seem stuck down properly at the edge and corners.

Dave

(I should say the old parts of the house have floorboards to which have been stapled 6mm plywood. The extension is a sand and cement screed: Balls Stopgap 300 HD has been applied to that.)

dazlight · 20 Mar 2013

Can you post any pictures.
Have the planks been acclimatised ?

Tweedledee · 21 Mar 2013

dazlight said:
Can you post any pictures.
Have the planks been acclimatised ?

The vinyl tiles were in the house for 24 hours I'd say.

Photos below

Layout

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

View from extension to front door through hallway on right, old living room on the left.

Worst mismatch

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

This occurs in the hallway on the right of the picture. Tiliing was started in the old living...

Bad mismatch

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

Inadequate adhesive?

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

Common size error

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

Common size error

Tweedledee
21 Mar 2013
1

About 20 joins look like this. They are almost OK, but don't look great to me.

To be fair to him the fitter has now admitted that the boss could take a look at it and it hasn't gone quite right. Waiting for the boss to come and look now.

I'm thinking probably the whole lot should come up though.

dazlight · 21 Mar 2013

That is shocking. Was it a proper Floorlayer who did this !!!!

coolevilangel · 21 Mar 2013

OMG
That is cr@p
the design has stepped out on him & he hasnt caught it
Deffo needs re-done
Also can you take a pic of the adhesive tubs so we can see what hes used, should either be F46 or F48

dazlight · 21 Mar 2013

Was there a reason he didn't use design strips? Even a similar colour makes the tiles look alot better.

Tweedledee · 21 Mar 2013

He's been using F46 but I don't think he used enough. It's quite a thick tile and I wonder if that means it needs more adhesive?

There are quite a few tiles where the edge or corner does not look well enough stuck down. I am wondering also if that's because the screed is not flat enough, and it's a thick tile. Definitely there are a few dips in the surface.

We didn't want design strips. Perhaps with a pale strip it could look quite nice.

I 'd guess he could have drawn a straight line from the front door all the way through and work away from it in both directions. The other approach, which he was using, was to lay a line in the living room, then run that around the wall and back to the living room, following a perfect rectangle.

The fitter admitted that since he had some latex still drying that he didn't draw his rectangle all the way around that central wall. Presumably if he had been able to do that he'd have seen that he'd drifted out of true and would have redone his lines.

That photo labelled "common size error": I'd say there are about 20 joints which look like that. Then there are about five or six bigger errors.

dazlight · 21 Mar 2013

I would say its rip up start again. I use F46 all the time and never have a problem. I put it on with a standard trowel then roll the adhesive with a pre wetted roller so the adhesive is flat which gets move grip.
Did the fitter use a 70kg roller?
Read the info here

Apply the adhesive using a STYCCOBOND 1.5mm x 3mm (A2) or 1.5mm x 5mm
‘V’ notched trowel. Immediately roll with a paint roller which has been pre-wetted
with adhesive, to obtain a smooth, uniform appearance.This will minimise adhesive
grin through and maximise surface area of contact for adhesion.

lymmranger · 22 Mar 2013

ooops.........

These photos illustrate everything that has been said on here many times

I have always said that a lot of the charges are in the floor prep - that does include taking time to set it out

..........plenty of people say they can fit (every pub has at least half a dozen)

.....not many can - Have you called "the boss" yet????

Edit - due to terrible grammar and sentence construction

Tweedledee · 22 Mar 2013

lymmranger said:
ooops.........

These photos illustrate everything that has been said on here many times

I have always said that a lot of the charges are in the floor prep - that does include taking time to set it out

..........plenty of people say they can fit (every pub has at least half a dozen)

.....not many can - Have you called "the boss" yet????

Yes the boss has been round and is embarrassed about the quality. He says he'll be redoing it over the weekend.

As you say it's all in the preparation. I don't see how they can ever do an acceptable job without getting the levelling compound completely level before they start too.

What I don't understand is that the fitter was saying he has 20 years of experience. If I'd done this as a DIYer I'd have ripped it up by now to start again.

Our floor looks nothing like the lovely photos in the Polyflor brochure!

dazlight · 22 Mar 2013

20 years experience is all well and good but its got to be the right experience.
I've been playing golf for 20 years an still rubbish at it lol

lymmranger · 22 Mar 2013

@ dazlight.....

I currently employ 5 teams of fitters

In the past it was as many as 8

I would only "trust" 2 of them to do hard flooring, yet they all claim to be experts

I have fitted this stuff "ONCE" in an "easy" room after much coaching from team 1

I would NEVER even consider doing it at home (cant afford the divorce

) in fact I would never do it again full stop.
Yet time and time again I come across "clever" customers who only want the tiles cos they know what they are doing.....
most call back 2 - 3 days later asking what glue I would recommend
they the ring a week later asking if I know a good fitter

by this time they have usually "trashed" several sq metres of tile

Petest67 · 22 Mar 2013

Who's going to put the pics in the "cr#p flooring pics (best wins a prize)" thread?

Tweedledee · 28 Mar 2013

dazlight said:
I would say its rip up start again. I use F46 all the time and never have a problem. I put it on with a standard trowel then roll the adhesive with a pre wetted roller so the adhesive is flat which gets move grip.
Did the fitter use a 70kg roller?

No he didn't use a roller.

Now the boss has come back and lifted up everything which was sitting on the levelling compound and a little more.

A couple of things are worrying me: the boss is saying "you don't always need a roller" when the instructions say otherwise.

Also, there's an area laid on plywood where we have lips at most of the tile edges, so you'd catch your foot on them. I've had to persuade him that this needs lifting too. The tile is pale with black sides and bottom: it's obvious when there's a lip as you see the black.

Presumably this is due to inadequate pressure on the tile? I'm thinking that if he turns up without a roller I'm going to have to stop him working as he's just going to mess it up again. Is that reasonable?

The photos below are the area he has not yet lifted.

Edges lifting

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

Tile laid on plywood

More edges lifting

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

Tile laid on plywood

Badly laid out

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

Tile laid on plywood

Lifting

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

Bad "lip" on this tile

Too much tile edge visible

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

From a distance the tile edges are very visible due to bad fitting. (Black on underside and...

Another tile edge lifting

Tweedledee
29 Mar 2013
1

Tile laid on plywood

Tweedledee · 28 Mar 2013

lymmranger said:
@ dazlight.....

I currently employ 5 teams of fitters

In the past it was as many as 8

I would only "trust" 2 of them to do hard flooring, yet they all claim to be experts.

Sorry to sound daft but what do you mean by "hard flooring"? These are vinyl tiles.

Thanks for your input.

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Vinyl tiles: corners not meeting

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