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Robgers · 4 Oct 2013

Just returned from my mums who was having trouble with her security light.
Seemingly it had come on this afternoon, three hours later still on. No switch fitted in house to turn light off.

After a bit of investigation the flex from the light seems to be wired directly into an upstairs socket which is practically back to back with light.

Even with my limited knowledge this just doesn't seem right. In the meantime I have switched MCB off while seeking advice.

I'm quite happy to check socket and disconnect flex, any further work will be left to an electrician.

EFLImpudence · 4 Oct 2013

Yes ? Not sure what you are asking.

A DP (fused) switch would have been handy but if it has been fitted correctly then there may actually be nothing electrically against the regulations.

Robgers · 4 Oct 2013

My main concern was that no switch had been provided in house to switch light off. Only way was to switch off MCB.

EFLImpudence · 4 Oct 2013

That could be technically correct if inconvenient.

Robgers · 4 Oct 2013

Thanks for that EFLI, puts my mind at rest. I will get an electrician to fit a switch for her.

securespark · 4 Oct 2013

Surely if it's flex into the socket the MCB is not protecting it?

It should be fused down?

Some lights if there is an interruption in supply will switch on to a permanently on setting.

Next time you're there, try switching back off, allowing time for it to settle down and then see if it goes off.

JohnW2 · 4 Oct 2013

securespark said:
Surely if it's flex into the socket the MCB is not protecting it? It should be fused down?

I suspect that EFLI will argue that a security light cannot create an overload, so that overload protection of the flex is not required, and that the MCB will provide adequate fault protection for the flex.

Kind Regards, John

securespark · 4 Oct 2013

Well, if you like (I don't)!

Plus, it stinks as a job. Never mind the ability to isolate the light without having to isolate the whole blinking circuit.....

And the galling thing is, I bet the job wasn't cheap.

JohnW2 · 4 Oct 2013

securespark said:
Well, if you like (I don't)!

Well, it's an argument commonly seen here in relation to single hard-wired loads, and it is technically compliant with the regs. In the case of a security light, I'm relatively happy, since it's incredibly unlikely that it could result in an 'overload' (i.e. a fault that wasn't of negligible impedance). In other scenarios (particularly loads involving heating elements, motors or transformers), I'm far less comfortable.

securespark said:
Plus, it stinks as a job. Never mind the ability to isolate the light without having to isolate the whole blinking circuit.....

The absence of at least a switch is, indeed, plain daft and/or cowboyish, and cerainly doesn't inspire confidence in whoever did it.

Kind Regards, John

Iggifer · 4 Oct 2013

and no way to isolate in case of water ingress, and will take down your socket circuit!

EFLImpudence · 4 Oct 2013

EFLImpudence said:
A DP (fused) switch would have been handy but if it has been fitted correctly then there may actually be nothing electrically against the regulations.

I didn't say it was ideal but it may be correct.

Unfused spur with half, one or two amp load.

JohnW2 · 4 Oct 2013

EFLImpudence said:
I didn't say it was ideal but it may be correct. Unfused spur with half, one or two amp load.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me but, as I've already said, I agree that it can be argued to be compliant, since even I don't think that a lamp is ever going to result in an overload (as opposed to a fault).

Kind Regards, John

Lectrician · 5 Oct 2013

A lighting circuit used to have a limit of 16amp, regardless of cable size. I'm not sure if this is in the current regs TBH.

JohnW2 · 5 Oct 2013

Lectrician said:
A lighting circuit used to have a limit of 16amp, regardless of cable size. I'm not sure if this is in the current regs TBH.

I certainly don't recall having seen that in the current regs (but that doesn't prove a lot!).

One does sometimes see people fussing about a 0.5mm² pendant flex being protected by a B6 - but, again, I think one can reasonably invoke the fact that it is all-but-impossible for lamp to create an overload situation.

Kind Regards, John

Robgers · 5 Oct 2013

John,

I'm popping round to my mums later. If the light still won't turn off is it sensible to just remove the bulb rather than disconnect the wiring?

This will only be a short term fix while I arrange to get an electrician.

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